Color checker plug in?

Discussions, questions, comments and suggestions regarding Capture One PRO, Capture One PRO For Sony / Fujifilm, Capture One DB and Capture One Express For Sony / For Fujifilm 12.x for Mac

Re: Color checker plug in?

Postby NN161694UL » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:43 am

deejjjaaaa wrote:
NN161694UL wrote:Why doesn't phase one come out with a professional target like the color checker SG (more color patches, but with a lower price


because the proper target with patches made from proper different pigments will not be cheap _AND_ any cheap target with just more patches w/o actual variety of different pigments resulting in sufficiently different reflectance spectra is useless vs already existing (even not ideal, SG is semigloss - hence difficult for an average Joe and even non average Joe to shoot) products from X-Rite

DO READ THE LINKS I posted - then you shall have less questions


I did not mention the word cheap once.
It´s just an economical thought, that producing a great product and selling it for a lower price, can still mean a higher profit, because you can reach many more buyers.
I have the color checker SG. I think it just has a price tag not many people are willing to pay. (and they are right, since it wears off after a couple of years)
If you are very optimistic, you can sell 1000 of those worldwide, if they are very good and you sell them for $350(rough SG price in Germany). Your initial design and production cost would be very high per piece.
Now if you offer the same product for $150, you suddenly have 10000 potential buyers. (all numbers are imaginary, but maybe not completely out of this world)
Production cost per target should drop significantly and c1 would have another great real pro feature (good for the competition with LR), while making money.
And a "Phase One Target" sounds pretty cool! 8)
People like me, typical apple users ;), like well designed, easy to use systems, that offer all the things needed for a certain task.
So to me, all the color handling issues should be integrated into the raw converter.
Splitting up solutions with different companies is quite annoying, because in case of things not working right, it´s always the other companies fault. It´s not good hanging in between Sony, Phase One and xRite.
As I wrote in my initial post, they already offer a nice and lean solution for their own cameras with the "Flash - Flat Art Reproduction" profile(among others), which works quite well.
They should just expand that whole color handling issue to other brands, because in the long run, they will be making much more money with their software than their hardware. But if they don´t improve, then people might as well just use LR.
Last edited by NN161694UL on Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Color checker plug in?

Postby NN161694UL » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:09 am

deejjjaaaa wrote:
NN161694UL wrote:Serious color reproduction is such a nightmare.

nobody promised otherwise... as you have to invest into lights with good spectrum and spectrophotometers too, not just the target... or get setup that allows to measure SSF directly ( DIY = https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/61332698 )



The Broncolor flashes I use do have a very good spectrum. (and yes, I´m well aware that the spectrum changes a little with the amount of power output)
I´m talking about a nice workflow for precise art reproductions(can also be all other color sensitive product shots etc), best within the c1 system. They could cooperate with whoever they want, but just make sure that the system works and is well integrated.
For me, that would be more interesting than more layer mask options etc. And maybe for others as well?
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Re: Color checker plug in?

Postby mli20 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:58 am

NN635412303032341950UL wrote:Does it works now or do they have to wait for updates from X-rite?

A plugin, no thanks.

Capture One Pro should support the use of dcp profiles out of the box and we would immediately have a plethora of camera profiles and tools, including the ColorChecker, available to us.

MLI
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Re: Color checker plug in?

Postby deejjjaaaa » Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:52 pm

mli20 wrote:
NN635412303032341950UL wrote:Does it works now or do they have to wait for updates from X-rite?

A plugin, no thanks.

Capture One Pro should support the use of dcp profiles out of the box and we would immediately have a plethora of camera profiles and tools, including the ColorChecker, available to us.

MLI


dcp profiles are applied early in the pipeline (partially right after demosaicking and partially after exposure control application)... ICC profiles in C1 case are applied at the very end... hence dream on - P1 is not going to do the amount of coding required.

plethora of tools is plethora of subpar tools for people who mostly can't even properly illuminate the target ... the proper (few) tools support generation of both dcp profiles and icc profiles for C1...
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Re: Color checker plug in?

Postby deejjjaaaa » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:01 pm

NN161694UL wrote:I did not mention the word cheap once.


you did -> "...but with a lower price..." because proper (not printed mind you) target with many dozens of patches for under $350 is cheap.

NN161694UL wrote:It´s just an economical thought, that producing a great product and selling it for a lower price, can still mean a higher profit, because you can reach many more buyers.


except those many more buyers are buying X-Rite passports or junk some from Datacolor.

NN161694UL wrote:I have the color checker SG. I think it just has a price tag not many people are willing to pay. (and they are right, since it wears off after a couple of years)


only if you stick it into every shot for no reason (more so outdoors) - how many profiles do you really want to create in 2 years ?

NN161694UL wrote:If you are very optimistic, you can sell 1000 of those worldwide, if they are very good and you sell them for $350(rough SG price in Germany). Your initial design and production cost would be very high per piece.
Now if you offer the same product for $150, you suddenly have 10000 potential buyers. (all numbers are imaginary, but maybe not completely out of this world)


of you suddenly don't have them because dudes prefer X-Rite Passport in a clamshell or junk from datacolor
deejjjaaaa
 
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Re: Color checker plug in?

Postby mli20 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:55 pm

deejjjaaaa wrote:
mli20 wrote:
NN635412303032341950UL wrote:Does it works now or do they have to wait for updates from X-rite?

A plugin, no thanks.

Capture One Pro should support the use of dcp profiles out of the box and we would immediately have a plethora of camera profiles and tools, including the ColorChecker, available to us.

MLI


dcp profiles are applied early in the pipeline (partially right after demosaicking and partially after exposure control application)... ICC profiles in C1 case are applied at the very end... hence dream on - P1 is not going to do the amount of coding required.

plethora of tools is plethora of subpar tools for people who mostly can't even properly illuminate the target ... the proper (few) tools support generation of both dcp profiles and icc profiles for C1...

The OP asked a simple question about the ColorChecker. I answered it.
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