Any way to get back marks on slide bars?

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Any way to get back marks on slide bars?

Postby Roman8 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:39 am

In old interface I could look at the slide bar and click at a specific mark to get +0.25, +0.5, +0.75EV, and same for each tool. Now slide bars don't have marks at all so I can't be quick and efficient haha.

Any way to get marks back, maybe at least as an option?

They might not look cool for 2018-2019 interface standards but they're very helful for workflow.

Thanks!
Last edited by Roman8 on Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Any way to get back marks on slide bars?

Postby Roman8 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:42 am

There's not even a zero mark, isn't it weird?

It'd be amusing to see a thermometer designed by CO12 folks. No marks, no zeroes, nothing. Just guess.
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Re: Any way to get back marks on slide bars?

Postby Paul_Steunebrink » Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:17 pm

I think you have a point here. The zero mark is a must have. Other markers a should have. UI designers are not necessarily users of the software.
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Re: Any way to get back marks on slide bars?

Postby Class A » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:02 am

Paul_Steunebrink wrote:UI designers are not necessarily users of the software.

Paul, I do appreciate the vast majority of your contributions, but this particular statement makes zero sense.

If a company has UI designers that go for visual appeal rather than utility then something is seriously wrong.

Any good designer knows that form follows function. A UI designer must understand what a UI element is used for and optimise its visual appearance accordingly.

As an aside, I find that the new V12 look is a step backwards from V11. V12 appears to be aiming at a phone app look with its new font, solid buttons, lack of tick marks, etc. I wish Phase One could give users the option to retain the old interface. At the very least font size and background colour should be user-selectable and ideally the font itself as well, among other aspects, such as showing tick marks or not.
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Re: Any way to get back marks on slide bars?

Postby SFA » Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:29 pm

I'm not excited by the revised UI look but I can't say it worries me much in any way.

During the beta there was a very dark version that I thought somewhat unhelpful especially when pop-out windows overlaid the main screen but after a while and a couple of tweaks things were OK.

As I recall there were many forum comments about the font being too small in earlier versions.

Now some think it too big.

I'm sure that, if the technology used for the dynamic screen adjustment allows it, implementing user definable font sizes (and styles?) will attract just as many criticisms about the way it is done.

All will be well when humans are pre-programmed to agree about everything or robots take over the tasks.

I don't find I miss the tick marks either, though I have always considered them useful in the past for some reason.

In reality the implied precision of having a mark to aim at may not be so important. Perhaps an approach that differs in the way it fits somewhere between the needs of technical drawing and purely artistic interpretation. But if providing some sort of precision is the objective should all of the bars have max and min value labels and perhaps ticks that indicate whether the scale is likely to be linear or logarithmic?

Would having that information significantly change the way that people use the software?

That's a serious question. I don't think it would enhance my usage experience but some may find it desirable.

Is there a case for offering multiple styles of UI to satisfy varied tastes and preferences?

Would doing so actually enhance the user experience to a point of improving productivity or the quality of the work undertaken?

Would the development resource cost be justified by the results? How much would the options to change the look and feel be worth to the users? How much impact would it have on support requirements and resources.

Does anyone have any links for research papers related to using current technology for screen based photographic processing, especially colour work, and what an optimum set up is likely to be on a user by user basis based on the specifics of an individual's eyesight status as it might be assessed by an optician?


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Re: Any way to get back marks on slide bars?

Postby Paul_Steunebrink » Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:31 pm

Class A wrote:
Paul_Steunebrink wrote:UI designers are not necessarily users of the software.

Paul, I do appreciate the vast majority of your contributions, but this particular statement makes zero sense.

If a company has UI designers that go for visual appeal rather than utility then something is seriously wrong.

I was basically saying the same as you, but you did not get the irony I put into it. Can happen.
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Re: Any way to get back marks on slide bars?

Postby Class A » Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:36 am

Paul_Steunebrink wrote:I was basically saying the same as you, but you did not get the irony I put into it. Can happen.

All good.
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Re: Any way to get back marks on slide bars?

Postby Class A » Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:50 am

SFA wrote:All will be well when humans are pre-programmed to agree about everything or robots take over the tasks.

That's a strange way to view a matter that can evaluated objectively to a large degree.
If UI design were completely arbitrary then you'd have a point, but it isn't.

One can define tasks and then evaluate which designs better support users in those tasks. For instance, if you wanted to allow users to quickly see whether any adjustments have been made to an image, it would be useful to have (at the very least) a tick mark at the "zero" point and a slider with a defined pointer (at the end or inside a hollow form).

SFA wrote:In reality the implied precision of having a mark to aim at may not be so important. Perhaps an approach that differs in the way it fits somewhere between the needs of technical drawing and purely artistic interpretation.

I hope that everyone adjusts their images by subjective evaluation, not paying attention to tick marks.
However, tick marks can still be useful for checking neutrality of settings and/or achieving/confirming consistency between images. They can also help to quickly gauge the amount of adjustment one has chosen which can be helpful for all sorts of purposes.

SFA wrote:Is there a case for offering multiple styles of UI to satisfy varied tastes and preferences?

If UI design choices impact on productivity for some users then yes, they should have the option of choosing the design that works best for them.

SFA wrote:Would the development resource cost be justified by the results?

Obviously Phase One invested development resources to change the UI design from V11 to V12. I don't think that removing tick marks has been shown to result in less fatigue in long editing sessions, so it seems that some of that development investment has been made on the basis of creating a certain "look and feel" or assumptions about what the effect would be on users. It seems that the voices of those who would like to see at least "zero" point tick marks have not been heard.

It seems to me that if there are resources to change the UI in the way it was done for V11 -> V12 then there should be sufficient resources to allow people some choice, in the very least regarding the font size (increasing it negatively impacts users who work with monitors that provide reasonable DPI figures to begin with).
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Re: Any way to get back marks on slide bars?

Postby SFA » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:27 am

Class A wrote:Obviously Phase One invested development resources to change the UI design from V11 to V12. I don't think that removing tick marks has been shown to result in less fatigue in long editing sessions, so it seems that some of that development investment has been made on the basis of creating a certain "look and feel" or assumptions about what the effect would be on users. It seems that the voices of those who would like to see at least "zero" point tick marks have not been heard.

It seems to me that if there are resources to change the UI in the way it was done for V11 -> V12 then there should be sufficient resources to allow people some choice, in the very least regarding the font size (increasing it negatively impacts users who work with monitors that provide reasonable DPI figures to begin with).


There was certainly a request for input from the beta test processes and changes could be observed during the process so presumably the feedback was having some effect.

That's really part of my points above. Keeping everyone happy all of the time is most likely impossible until "people" are all bred to have exactly the same opinions about (in this case) digital image processing.

The resources required to mildly tweak a UI for background colour and font size and some aspects of appearance (maybe some other factors less obvious to the eye as well?) are, I would expect, very different to those required to provide a (workable) fully user defined and changeable UI that allowed then to do anything they liked with it. That would be about the only way that I can think of to keep all users happy.

Except it probably would not keep all users happy because most would complain it was too complicated and my guess would be that the support resource requirement - for a purely cosmetic facility, in effect, for most users - would most like be far more than could be supported.

I can't comment on Mac world but the Windows world most of the screen customisation that I have seen in recent times comes down to what option are available on screens (more or less what C1 already offers) and what sort of colour one wishes to have for an office product - unless it is by default customised for a corporate system by the IT department or software developer.

I can just imagine the customisers complaining that, in the one hand, they don't have the cameras/lenses/OS Support/features they want but then complaining about the possible need to redevelop their custom interface when new features are made available.

If an of that activity led to significantly and provable improved images or greater productivity then it might be justifiable. But I doubt that it would.

That's not to say that I think the current (or past) UI styles are/were perfect for everyone. That would be impossible (until - see above). I just strongly doubt that the effort required would be cost effective in terms of money and time for the developers or the users.

In general if you add complexity to a product you must add costs and increase potential for failure.

I doubt that anyone using C1 would welcome either. Therefore, writing personally, I would prefer to keep things as simple as possible and work with what is offered rather than attempt to change it on the basis of form over function.

It is highly likely that across the user base there will be a further 1000 or so alternative opinions available to counter ours. It must take some effort from the developers to try to distil them into something that looks like a reasonable enhancement or even some sort of forced change. In the case of certain aspects of the UI there may well be some science research involved in the areas of best practise for users with a range of vision standards related to eye strain and colour recognition capability.

Maybe it would be worth C1 developers publishing a blog post about it ? I seem to recall something that touched on such matters being offered a few years ago.If my memory is correct maybe it is still in the archive.



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