Testing out C1, problems with smart albums.

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Testing out C1, problems with smart albums.

Postby NNN636770703923053790 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:25 pm

I am switching from Nikon to Fuji and as a result of the positive comments on Capture one and Fuji I decided to do a 30 day trial.   I am liking what I see but a couple of issues are concerning me.   I have been using Lightroom but I what I see in Capture One looks better to me.

I created a new catalog and imported my lightroom catalog.   It did not bring in all my keywords and ratings on the photos.  I read another article on switching and it recommended turning on synchronization of xmp data in preferences.  I sent to to prefer xmp over embedded data.  This ended up crating an .xmp file for every image, which is not a big deal as they are very small.   This got all my ratings and keywords showing up in the catalog.

I use lots of smart collections in Lightroom so I started creating smart albums in C1 and I am getting some flaky results.  If I create a smart album and include a known good keyword I see no images.  If I go into the smart album and edit it and change keyword from includes to equals I still see nothing even though many images have that keyword assigned.  I toggle back to includes in the drop down and all of the sudden all the images with that keyword show up in the smart album.   Anyone else seeing this?

I also cannot figure out if C1 can have a smart album where you have match all or any in the same query.   It was easy in Lightroom.   For example, I could have a smart collection with the names of my three kids and only include 4 star and above ratings.  No idea if this is impossible in C1 but I have not found anything through searching.   

Are smart albums unreliable in C1?
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Re: Testing out C1, problems with smart albums.

Postby Paul_Steunebrink » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:01 am

First, after your (big) import, you best do a verification of your catalog database (File menu > Verify Catalog or Session). This hopefully improves the performance of your smart albums.

You can include multiple statements in a smart album (name kids, 4 stars). In the dialog for smart album properties, top left, you see Match all/any of the following rules. With all/any you can make multiple criteria inclusive or not.
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Re: Testing out C1, problems with smart albums.

Postby NNN636770703923053790 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:15 pm

I did that and it did not find any problems. Odd behavior indeed but at least I figured out how to get the keyword photos to show up.

Do you know if you can put multiple keywords in on queuery, I know in Lightroom you would separate them by commas and it would pick up all three.
The problem I have is I cannot figure out how to do an any and an all in one smart album. I need it to match any on the multiple names to include any photos with those names and then have it do an all to only show the five star photos. Confused how to do this in one smart album. In lightroom you could specify whether each item was an any or an all, in C1 it seems like all lines are either anys or alls.
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Re: Testing out C1, problems with smart albums.

Postby amercado@aglgemlab » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:18 pm

I’m experiencing a similar issue with dates in my Smart Albums: when I enter a date in the album’s search criteria, none of the images created on that date are displayed.

The date and time are set correctly on my Mac and the camera, so it is not an issue of the metadata having an incorrect timestamp.

I found a workaround to solve the issue by entering the day before the needed date in the album’s search criteria. For example, if I want the album to display images created on December 4th, I have to enter December 3rd in the album’s search criteria.

For reference, I am using:
C1 Pro 12.0, Build 12.0.0.270 (2a5fb5)
Nikon D300S, ver. 1.0.2
Mac Pro (Mid 2010), macOS High Sierra 10.13.6
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Re: Testing out C1, problems with smart albums.

Postby SFA » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:27 pm

amercado@aglgemlab wrote:I’m experiencing a similar issue with dates in my Smart Albums: when I enter a date in the album’s search criteria, none of the images created on that date are displayed.

The date and time are set correctly on my Mac and the camera, so it is not an issue of the metadata having an incorrect timestamp.

I found a workaround to solve the issue by entering the day before the needed date in the album’s search criteria. For example, if I want the album to display images created on December 4th, I have to enter December 3rd in the album’s search criteria.

For reference, I am using:
C1 Pro 12.0, Build 12.0.0.270 (2a5fb5)
Nikon D300S, ver. 1.0.2
Mac Pro (Mid 2010), macOS High Sierra 10.13.6


Could this be related to Time Zones in some way?
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Re: Testing out C1, problems with smart albums.

Postby amercado@aglgemlab » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:38 pm

SFA wrote:Could this be related to Time Zones in some way?


I'm not sure. The Mac and camera are both set to the same time zone and have the daylight savings adjustment turned off. If there is a difference between their clocks, it would only be by about a second.
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Re: Testing out C1, problems with smart albums.

Postby SFA » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:13 am

amercado@aglgemlab wrote:
SFA wrote:Could this be related to Time Zones in some way?


I'm not sure. The Mac and camera are both set to the same time zone and have the daylight savings adjustment turned off. If there is a difference between their clocks, it would only be by about a second.


But what date and time do you see in the image file?

As far as I can see you have not mentioned whether you are using a catalog or a session. I use sessions so my suggestion may be slightly differently presented in a catalog but as I recall it is much the same.

In the Library sections with the Albums and smart albums creation you should somewhere find a "Filters" and by default some automatically generated and dynamically maintained filter fields. One of them should be "date".

The filter will display a list of all the dates it finds in the current selection of images. It can be expanded or contracted with YEAR as the top level.

You can use select a single date for which to display images using the tick button for the date. Or multiple dates by shift and click on each of the dates you wish to select. How do those dates compare with your Smart Album selections? (You can use the Metadata tool to see the full date and time.)

Smart Albums by date work as expected for me but I'm using Windows so there is expectation but no certainty that the same can be said for Mac due to differences in the operating system amongst other things.

HTH.

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Re: Testing out C1, problems with smart albums.

Postby amercado@aglgemlab » Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:21 pm

SFA wrote:But what date and time do you see in the image file?

The correct date and time are shown in Metadata tool. For example, it displays 12/06/2018, 12:03:21PM.

I am using sessions. In the edit window for my smart album, there are two sections for the rules: Search Criteria, and Active Filters. Under Search Criteria, I have this rule set, Date is on 12/5/2018. I have no Active Filters set. If I change the date to 12/6/2018, the smart album immediately empties. When I select any previous date, images from the day after this date will populate the album.

I also made sure the Search field in the Browser toolbar was clear. I'm not aware of any other areas within the application to apply filters or rules.

So far I can live with this anomaly, however I can't figure out what is causing this behavior.
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Re: Testing out C1, problems with smart albums.

Postby SFA » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:27 pm

amercado@aglgemlab wrote:
SFA wrote:But what date and time do you see in the image file?

The correct date and time are shown in Metadata tool. For example, it displays 12/06/2018, 12:03:21PM.

I am using sessions. In the edit window for my smart album, there are two sections for the rules: Search Criteria, and Active Filters. Under Search Criteria, I have this rule set, Date is on 12/5/2018. I have no Active Filters set. If I change the date to 12/6/2018, the smart album immediately empties. When I select any previous date, images from the day after this date will populate the album.

I also made sure the Search field in the Browser toolbar was clear. I'm not aware of any other areas within the application to apply filters or rules.

So far I can live with this anomaly, however I can't figure out what is causing this behavior.


There is a Filters tool and you can specify the metadata fields for which you wish to have readily available radio button type selections. Date is one of the default fields and gives a hierarchy of YEAR>Month>Day. It would be interesting to know what that shows.

Also, what International Locale your system is set to currently?


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Re: Testing out C1, problems with smart albums.

Postby amercado@aglgemlab » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:27 pm

amercado@aglgemlab wrote:There is a Filters tool and you can specify the metadata fields for which you wish to have readily available radio button type selections. Date is one of the default fields and gives a hierarchy of YEAR>Month>Day. It would be interesting to know what that shows.

Also, what International Locale your system is set to currently?


Oh wow, I had not noticed that tool before, however I instantly love it! Thanks for highlighting it!

Using the Filter tool, the browser displays the correct images for the date selected. I also refined the filter by using the advanced search accessed via the ellipsis in the tool's search field. Using the Create Smart Album button in the advanced search resulted in an album with the correct images.

The anomaly I was experiencing earlier is only occurring via the + button in the Session Albums section of the Library tool.

Also, my Mac is set to Eastern Standard Time (+5), as is my Nikon.
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Re: Testing out C1, problems with smart albums.

Postby SFA » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:49 pm

I'm glad you are enjoying the filter!

Your persistent problem seems strange indeed.

There is nothing I can think of in the settings you have that would seem likely to affect the selection by day with an image time in the middle of the day. And the fact that every other filter option works suggests that it's not a data or data interpretation problem but more likely some sort of internal problem. Whether a bug or a bad value in a file cretaed as part of an installation process is difficult to say.

I would suggest creating a Support Case and taking it up with the C1 Support Team.

It may be something they have seen before. If not they will probably now where to investigate in the depths of the code!

HTH.


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Re: Testing out C1, problems with smart albums.

Postby mli20 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:51 pm

NNN636770703923053790 wrote:The problem I have is I cannot figure out how to do an any and an all in one smart album. I need it to match any on the multiple names to include any photos with those names and then have it do an all to only show the five star photos. Confused how to do this in one smart album. In lightroom you could specify whether each item was an any or an all, in C1 it seems like all lines are either anys or alls.

I believe you are absolutely correct,; In Capture One any/all cannot be set on a per line basis.

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Re: Testing out C1, problems with smart albums.

Postby SFA » Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:17 pm

mli20 wrote:
NNN636770703923053790 wrote:The problem I have is I cannot figure out how to do an any and an all in one smart album. I need it to match any on the multiple names to include any photos with those names and then have it do an all to only show the five star photos. Confused how to do this in one smart album. In lightroom you could specify whether each item was an any or an all, in C1 it seems like all lines are either anys or alls.

I believe you are absolutely correct,; In Capture One any/all cannot be set on a per line basis.

MLI


I can't speak for Mac but using Windows there are certainly possibilities to add a selection line (or group of lines) with a Match option (All or Any).

On the left of the definition window is a column for + that when clicked allows the creation of a new selection line.

If a new selection is created, on the RIGHT of the selection line should be a - and + sign.

Click the + and above that line a Match definition option will appear. (- will remove the line.)

The selection for the Match will apply to the selected line and all subsequent lines until another Match line is created.

If you wish to make a search something really complex I suspect that is possible. The combination of logic for the MASTER All/Any option and the sub-fields and groups of fields might be somewhat challenging - as it is in many database search tools.

However, since each line can be activated/deactivated individually a more practical use might be to create a default search field selector with fixed values for searches one uses regularly and then activate or deactivate individual lines as required to fulfil a particular search combination. You can save the search window as a Preset for future use.

Bear in mind that you can also have active filters applied.


HTH.


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Re: Testing out C1, problems with smart albums.

Postby mli20 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:45 pm

SFA wrote:
I can't speak for Mac but using Windows there are certainly possibilities to add a selection line (or group of lines) with a Match option (All or Any).

On the left of the definition window is a column for + that when clicked allows the creation of a new selection line.

If a new selection is created, on the RIGHT of the selection line should be a - and + sign.

Click the + and above that line a Match definition option will appear. (- will remove the line.)

The selection for the Match will apply to the selected line and all subsequent lines until another Match line is created.

Grant


A PC guy myself. I am with you mostly, but in the per line leftmost dropdown listbox, choosing "All" is not an option. In my understanding that's the core of the problem.

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Re: Testing out C1, problems with smart albums.

Postby SFA » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:47 pm

mli20 wrote:
SFA wrote:
I can't speak for Mac but using Windows there are certainly possibilities to add a selection line (or group of lines) with a Match option (All or Any).

On the left of the definition window is a column for + that when clicked allows the creation of a new selection line.

If a new selection is created, on the RIGHT of the selection line should be a - and + sign.

Click the + and above that line a Match definition option will appear. (- will remove the line.)

The selection for the Match will apply to the selected line and all subsequent lines until another Match line is created.

Grant


A PC guy myself. I am with you mostly, but in the per line leftmost dropdown listbox, choosing "All" is not an option. In my understanding that's the core of the problem.

MLI


Second column but first drop down box column? Defaults to "Any"?

That refers to Any field in the list of available fields. Slightly odd in a way but quite useful if you think of some possibly helpful way to find an image but do not know which field might contain the data string.

It's not the same as Any or All in the matching method options.

Does that explain it or have I miss interpreted your point?


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