Unable to add keywords to some images (why)?

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Unable to add keywords to some images (why)?

Postby AndyN » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:56 am

It's so frustrating to select a bunch of images - only to get an alert saying that keywords could not be added to two or three of them (and no explanation).
I'm pretty sure the images in question have a little icon in the bottom right hand corner with what looks like a pencil that's crossed out in red.
That's good, it tells me which images can't have keywords, but why does it happen, and how can I overcome the problem? I've searched the online manual (and here) to no avail. (So frustrating).
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Re: Unable to add keywords to some images (why)?

Postby Ian3 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:01 am

One possibility is that the images are too small and fall below C1's lower limit of image size that it allows editing on. For some reason this seems to extend even to keyboarding. Are the images in question all small?

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Re: Unable to add keywords to some images (why)?

Postby SFA » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:39 pm

As per Ian3's reply but also too large or video for example. Maybe also file type?

Check the release notes (packaged with the download) for some generic guidance and sometimes specific guidance.

You may also want to check that the files in the selection are all accessible - although whether that matters for Keyword changes may depend on whether you have Auto Sync running for Metadata. (I'm not sure about that as it is not something I use. Worth mentioning though since you are dealing with metadata.)

HTH.


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Re: Unable to add keywords to some images (why)?

Postby AndyN » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:42 pm

Thanks Ian. It does seem that it's the smaller images, but for the life of me, I can't understand why someone would deem it necessary to throw that particular spanner in the works...

Thanks also to Grant.
I wouldn't need to keyword video, I have Final Cut Pro X for that.

At the moment C1 is attaching metadata. Yet another 'secret" setting nobody mentions until you're in trouble.

I have about sixteen days of my trial left, and much as C1 has amazing potential,I have a feeling we're not going to make it.
I don't have any release notes (or rather, can't find any) maybe because I'm using the trial version? Although I'd imagine C1 would want those running it on trial to have an easy time. Not so for me.

If I want any information on the online guide, it rarely comes up with anything when I search for it.
If I want to watch a tutorial, they are nearly all more than an hour long! That's crazy!

Short, to the point tutorials are what beginners need - not hour long "webinars" (or whatever they're called).

Sorry if this is somewhat grumpy, but it's so frustrating to have to ask so many questions here simply because the online guide and YouTube tutorials are lacking. I'm no beginner with a computer. I make my living creating video, and have done my own digital editing for about fifteen years.
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Re: Unable to add keywords to some images (why)?

Postby Ian3 » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:37 pm

The release notes are found on the download page, and here is a link to them. http://downloads.phaseone.com/e7f45a0e-447c-4878-84fb-bca6db2de475/English/Capture%20One%2011.3.1%20Release%20notes%20(Rev%201.0).pdf

There are quite a few tutorial videos as well as the webinars, which many of us find really helpful. And of course there is he community of users on this forum, who are usually able to come up with the answers to most things.

I agree that while there may be a logic to not supporting the editing of very small images, there seems no good reason for that restriction also to apply to keywording.

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Re: Unable to add keywords to some images (why)?

Postby SFA » Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:18 am

Ian3 wrote:
I agree that while there may be a logic to not supporting the editing of very small images, there seems no good reason for that restriction also to apply to keywording.

Ian


In a session the KWs are in the .cos file - along with all of the other edits. So one would have to allow a .cos file and then have the complication of allowing or blocking (according to how much of a special case is made for other metadata to be included once the KW dyke has been breached). Plus the additional files that clutter up the system and are disadvantageous for transfer times (lots of small files are not good news normally) for "images" that are unlikely to be used for anything truly useful.

If images editing is not allowed what possible use would be KWs in the context of a RAW file converter?

As I recall the advisory is just an advisory and does not stop the process running. Is that still correct?

I guess if one has a significant need for KW's (or indeed other metadata entries) on small (or very large) files and even different types of file, there are other ways to do it, many of which do not require an image editor application. Something more like document handling would suffice? Something that Phase, perhaps, does not see as something they would currently consider to be part of a future business strategy and the consumer level and competing with free Open Source offerings?
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Re: Unable to add keywords to some images (why)?

Postby Ian3 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:47 am

I hadn't considered the .cos files - good point.

If images editing is not allowed what possible use would be KWs in the context of a RAW file converter?

Well, the reason why I would like it is that although C1 won't edit a small image, it can output a small image. (For example a small version of a JPG to put on a website - the charity I am a trustee of uses 225x225 images alongside the headline of a news item, and C1 can create them.) So it would be nice to be able to KW them so that they can easily be found in the catalog.

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Re: Unable to add keywords to some images (why)?

Postby SFA » Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:41 pm

Ian3 wrote:I hadn't considered the .cos files - good point.

If images editing is not allowed what possible use would be KWs in the context of a RAW file converter?

Well, the reason why I would like it is that although C1 won't edit a small image, it can output a small image. (For example a small version of a JPG to put on a website - the charity I am a trustee of uses 225x225 images alongside the headline of a news item, and C1 can create them.) So it would be nice to be able to KW them so that they can easily be found in the catalog.

Ian


Can you not add the KWs to the jpg output file when processing?

Or if the images are from elsewhere (presumably not delivered in huge numbers?) add through a separate program?

I have no idea about Mac but in Windows for a jpg one can edit the properties for most of the metadata with just a few obvious constraints. Once adjusted those values should be searchable and indexable.

Certainly I would not want to try to edit a batch of thousands - or even hundreds. But for random low volume use it would seem to be a quick and easy approach and it's direct to the file not to a sidecar file which may also be useful.

There's probably a free tool to download that makes use of the facility and adds a batch process and a UI to make it easier still. Not something I have checked for but I would be surprised if such did not exist.


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Re: Unable to add keywords to some images (why)?

Postby David532 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:12 pm

AndyN wrote:T

If I want any information on the online guide, it rarely comes up with anything when I search for it.
If I want to watch a tutorial, they are nearly all more than an hour long! That's crazy!

Short, to the point tutorials are what beginners need - not hour long "webinars" (or whatever they're called).


When you open Capture One a resource hub window should pop up on your screen (if not go to Help/Resource Hub). Top line of that are large links to Tutorials (a few minutes each) and the Webinars. If you want even more information there are lots of blogs available at https://blog.phaseone.com/

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Re: Unable to add keywords to some images (why)?

Postby Ian3 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:01 pm

Grant

I can add KWs when processing normally. It seems that the default is that a KW already applied to the raw file automatically gets added to the JPG which suits me fine. Whether it happens with small output I will have to check. But I am only recently getting into KWs and catalogs in C1, having previously used Media Pro and C1 in Session mode only. So what would be nice to do is to attach KWs to existing small JPGs.

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Re: Unable to add keywords to some images (why)?

Postby syncrasy » Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:08 pm

SFA wrote:
If images editing is not allowed what possible use would be KWs in the context of a RAW file converter?

Huh? Capture One is not just a RAW converter. It includes a catalog/DAM component. Any DAM/catalog should allow you to catalog/annotate supported images regardless of size. From the Capture One website: "Asset management is important for every photographer, be it management of images from individual day-to-day jobs or large collections with thousands of images. Capture One offers tools and solutions for every type of photographer, making asset management simple, fast and effective."

But if you're implying Capture One's catalog doesn't live up to its marketing, then you would have a point.

SFA wrote:I guess if one has a significant need for KW's (or indeed other metadata entries) on small (or very large) files and even different types of file, there are other ways to do it, many of which do not require an image editor application. Something more like document handling would suffice? Something that Phase, perhaps, does not see as something they would currently consider to be part of a future business strategy and the consumer level and competing with free Open Source offerings?

Oh, the irony.
— Mark
Camera & Computer: Nikon D500, D7100 • Mac Pro (mid 2010), various OSs
DAM: Media Pro SE
Image Editors: Nikon Capture NX 2, NX-D • Photoshop CS6

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Re: Unable to add keywords to some images (why)?

Postby AndyN » Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:46 pm

David532 wrote:When you open Capture One a resource hub window should pop up on your screen (if not go to Help/Resource Hub). Top line of that are large links to Tutorials (a few minutes each) and the Webinars. If you want even more information there are lots of blogs available at https://blog.phaseone.com/

Dave

Thanks Dave, I'll certainly watch those.
Basically, I just want to be able to find images - large or small. I'd like to be able to keyword them.
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Re: Unable to add keywords to some images (why)?

Postby SFA » Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:49 pm

syncrasy wrote:
SFA wrote:I guess if one has a significant need for KW's (or indeed other metadata entries) on small (or very large) files and even different types of file, there are other ways to do it, many of which do not require an image editor application. Something more like document handling would suffice? Something that Phase, perhaps, does not see as something they would currently consider to be part of a future business strategy and the consumer level and competing with free Open Source offerings?

Oh, the irony.


Why irony?

What do you think I was referring to?
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Re: Unable to add keywords to some images (why)?

Postby syncrasy » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:14 pm

SFA wrote:
syncrasy wrote:
SFA wrote:I guess if one has a significant need for KW's (or indeed other metadata entries) on small (or very large) files and even different types of file, there are other ways to do it, many of which do not require an image editor application. Something more like document handling would suffice? Something that Phase, perhaps, does not see as something they would currently consider to be part of a future business strategy and the consumer level and competing with free Open Source offerings?

Oh, the irony.


Why irony?

What do you think I was referring to?


Well, you didn't mention Media Pro by name, so I interpreted your comment as being ironic ("Hmmm... if only Phase One made a program that could apply metadata to files of any size or type...").
— Mark
Camera & Computer: Nikon D500, D7100 • Mac Pro (mid 2010), various OSs
DAM: Media Pro SE
Image Editors: Nikon Capture NX 2, NX-D • Photoshop CS6

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Re: Unable to add keywords to some images (why)?

Postby Edgephoto » Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:10 pm

I found the tutorials on Lynda.com to be very helpful. They are broken up into small segments for each thing. Most are only 2-3 minutes long. Watch all the versions as they tackle feature in the older videos that apply to the current versions. They have "essential training" for C1 version 9, 10 and 11. I would expect version 12 is forthcoming but those should show you what you need to know.

Lynda.com has a free trial. I figured out a way to get them on my computer so I don't need to log in all the time. I have access to Lynda via work.
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