Where to, now?

Discussions about Phase One Media Pro and Media Pro SE

Re: Where to, now?

Postby C-F » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:48 pm

syncrasy wrote:
syncrasy wrote:Of course, for Media Pro users, Capture One 11 is currently not a comparable replacement, so let's hope those discount codes will still be valid when/if Capture One actually has the features we need.


I just received word that my (small) Media Pro refugee's Capture One discount code is valid only for CO11. Considering all the evidence and PO's focus, I'm not inclined to buy CO11 now and hope PO releases a version of CO that has the DAM features I need. Oh well.

Back to Neofinder vs Photo Supreme vs Photo Mechanic 6!



I don't want to 'bust your bubble' or darken the already gloomy cloud, but

- recalling your comprehensive list of demands/expectations on a suitable DAM for your workflow, and based on my trials with 2 of your 'choices' I think atm your only 'hope' will be PM6 'as we don't know it' :wink:

Luckily, MP will be intact for some time in the future so 'time is not of pressing essence - yet'...

If you decide to give the other 2 programs a trial, I would be very interested in your impressions and eval results...

Franz
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Re: Where to, now?

Postby C-F » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:14 pm

OddS wrote:
myotis wrote:...I have been using Media Pro (since the iView days) but have been trialing Neofinder (I didn't like Photo Supreme) as I reckoned the writing was on the wall for Media Pro.

However, as a post in the Photo Mechanic forum yesterday promised the DAM version of PM before the end of the year "even if it kills us" I will certainly be looking at what it has to offer.


I wonder why single user fotostation ( https://shop.fotoware.com/collections/s ... r-products ) does not get more attention.It could be because the company FotoWare is known for quite a bit more expensive enterprise client/server type DAM.


Maybe also,

Very scarce information (just gives platforms it run on) - no trial download?
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Re: Where to, now?

Postby myotis » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:16 pm

HansDeZomers wrote:
myotis wrote:I didn't like Photo Supreme


That's unfortunate. I've switched away from iView shortly after Microsoft acquired it. The concept in Photo Supreme is different, almost opposite, from that in iView/MediaPro.

Photo Mechanic is reknown for their good software and you can expect good things. But fact is that there is currently no PM6 and once released I expect the DAM features to be basic.


Photo Supreme was OK, and had some attractive features, but in the end I stuck with Media Pro, and added Neofinder as a "back up". Maybe "didn't like it" was a bit extreme, it was more that I didn't like it as much as the alternatives.

Photo Mechanic 5 is at the centre of my workflow, so regardless of the new DAM features, I would probably upgrade. I would also be happy to continue with Neofinder as it does what I want. Its very fast to use and to update catalogues, allows for complex searches/smart folders etc and has a responsive developer.

But it still makes a lot of sense, given how much I rely on PM5, if I could also use it as a DAM.

Cheers,

Graham
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Re: Where to, now?

Postby syncrasy » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:21 pm

C-F wrote:If you decide to give the other 2 programs a trial, I would be very interested in your impressions and eval results...


If you're referring to PSu and NeoFinder, I have tested both programs:

Photo Supreme (tested 2014)

Here's my exchange with Hert (the developer) in which he corrected some of my mis-impressions, but also acknowledged that I found a bug:
https://forum.idimager.com/viewtopic.ph ... &p=106309&

I reported my impressions here:
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=15741&start=15#p79602
(includes my exchange/friendly debate with Hans)

and here:

viewtopic.php?f=43&t=26253#p129172

How much has changed since 2014? Did Hert add Web galleries or email support?

NeoFinder (tested this week)

I reported my impressions here:
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=28869&start=15#p139567

Not ready for my needs, but it includes a rudimentary Web gallery generator, and the developer is considering improving it as well as adding other items from my "requested feature list."
— Mark
Camera & Computer: Nikon D500, D7100 • Mac Pro (mid 2010), various OSs
DAM: Media Pro SE
Image Editors: Nikon Capture NX 2, NX-D • Photoshop CS6

(as of 2018)
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Re: Where to, now?

Postby myotis » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:22 pm

OddS wrote:I wonder why single user fotostation ( https://shop.fotoware.com/collections/s ... r-products ) does not get more attention.It could be because the company FotoWare is known for quite a bit more expensive enterprise client/server type DAM.


I did try Fotostation, but it isn't a DAM as it relies on the browsing images in the file system and only catalogues keywords and saves searches. Unless there was something I missed when trying to set it up.. I really liked the program, but as a browser based application it was just too slow for me.

Cheers,

Graham
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Re: Where to, now?

Postby syncrasy » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:25 pm

C-F wrote:
OddS wrote:
myotis wrote:...I have been using Media Pro (since the iView days) but have been trialing Neofinder (I didn't like Photo Supreme) as I reckoned the writing was on the wall for Media Pro.

However, as a post in the Photo Mechanic forum yesterday promised the DAM version of PM before the end of the year "even if it kills us" I will certainly be looking at what it has to offer.


I wonder why single user fotostation ( https://shop.fotoware.com/collections/s ... r-products ) does not get more attention.It could be because the company FotoWare is known for quite a bit more expensive enterprise client/server type DAM.


Maybe also,

Very scarce information (just gives platforms it run on) - no trial download?


Odd's link is for the store. Here's the main company site: https://www.fotostation.com
— Mark
Camera & Computer: Nikon D500, D7100 • Mac Pro (mid 2010), various OSs
DAM: Media Pro SE
Image Editors: Nikon Capture NX 2, NX-D • Photoshop CS6

(as of 2018)
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Re: Where to, now?

Postby myotis » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:27 pm

C-F wrote:
Very scarce information (just gives platforms it run on) - no trial download?


There is a trial of Foto Station, just click on the download button on the home page where it says that a trial is available.

https://www.fotostation.com

The help also provides some videos and reasonably good info on using it.

Cheers,

Graham
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Re: Where to, now?

Postby C-F » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:24 pm

Thanks guys, my bad,

will add to my 'to do list' after 'resolving' my current (daunting) project of venturing into 'virtual Windows world' and hopefully testing iMatch to suit my needs and hopes.

As above stated - good idea to concentrate on testing one DAM at a time...
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Re: Where to, now?

Postby syncrasy » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:33 pm

C-F wrote:venturing into 'virtual Windows world' and hopefully testing iMatch to suit my needs and hopes.


Wow, you're braver than I am. I've used VMware Fusion + Windows 7 for other applications without any problems, but the idea of placing my catalog into a virtual machine frightens me. :shock:
— Mark
Camera & Computer: Nikon D500, D7100 • Mac Pro (mid 2010), various OSs
DAM: Media Pro SE
Image Editors: Nikon Capture NX 2, NX-D • Photoshop CS6

(as of 2018)
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Re: Where to, now?

Postby syncrasy » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:00 pm

syncrasy wrote:
Paul Dymond wrote:Hi all, just wanted to let you know that I contacted Peter Krogh (of the DAM book fame) and he said that he’s looking at a couple of software programmes as candidates to replace MP - Photo Supreme and Daminion. I have downloaded Photo Supreme for a play and here’s some observations. They have a downloadable script that will import Catalog Sets (assuming you’ve synced them back to the original file) and convert them to what they call Portfolios. But, and this is a big but, you have to manually confirm each and every picture, one at a time, by clicking on an ok button in a dialogue box that pops up! That’s a lot of clicking! And nested Catalog Sets don’t transfer into nested Portfolios, they are each their own separated portfolio. So if you have a Catalog Set with 20 subsets each and every one of those subsets will be it’s own Portfolio. In other words, unusable. Also I’ve imported 55000 images to get an idea of speed and it is slow as hell operating on a pretty well specced Windows machine. Back to the drawing board!


Wow. Thanks for contacting Peter and doing all that work. The PSu script sounds like it's less useful than turning Catalog Sets into temporary MP keywords prior to migration. At least with temporary MP keywords you wouldn't have to confirm images one by one—just select all and create a Portfolio. I suppose the nesting could be staged in temporary MP keywords with logical shorthand names, e.g., keyword for Catalog Set parent = "CS001-[name of Catalog Set]", first nested child of CS001 = "CS001-a-[name of Catalog Set]". But that's still a lot of work and the speed issue appears to be a killer. I have ~ 40,000 images and hundreds of nested Catalog Sets, not to mention my 1,000s of hierarchical keywords, so I'm not keen on migrating.



Just realized that Robert E's advice includes the possibility of converting nested Catalog Sets to hierarchical keywords (rather than my convoluted naming process above), then exporting the annotations. Would those be ingested properly into PSu or other software (obviously as keywords, but at least recognizing the hierarchy of the Catalog Sets)?

Here's his original advice:

roberte wrote:For better or worse iView MediaPro/ Expression Media/ Media Pro offers several exit strategies. The easiest is to write metadata (Export Annotations) to the file or XMP sidecar file. Any decent DAM app will read the metadata. Export to XML is more difficult but does let you edit fields (search and replace) to match the new app.

If you use Media Pro Sets it's best to move that info to Keywords or Hierarchical Keywords then Export Annotations. There are scripts to do that, or if you only have few dozen Sets drag and drop works too.
— Mark
Camera & Computer: Nikon D500, D7100 • Mac Pro (mid 2010), various OSs
DAM: Media Pro SE
Image Editors: Nikon Capture NX 2, NX-D • Photoshop CS6

(as of 2018)
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Re: Where to, now?

Postby RobiWan » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:53 pm

Hey guys,

its Windows only. I have used it many years ago ~8-10 I think, as I was analog camera user ;)

https://www.pixandmore.de/
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Re: Where to, now?

Postby roberte » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:34 pm

FotoStation is definitely a solid DAM system that scales to enterprise with millions of images. Fotoware's target audience was newspaper and magazines and the standalone version was bundled with my original Nikon D1 in the 1999.
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Re: Where to, now?

Postby C-F » Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:03 am

syncrasy wrote:
C-F wrote:venturing into 'virtual Windows world' and hopefully testing iMatch to suit my needs and hopes.


Wow, you're braver than I am. I've used VMware Fusion + Windows 7 for other applications without any problems, but the idea of placing my catalog into a virtual machine frightens me. :shock:


lol, you call it 'brave' I call it 'crazy' :lol:

however,
1. my digital 'assets' should be 'safe' as iMatch only indexes the actual files (referenced) and builds an internal cache for its previews and thumbnails - ergo my images and documents remain where they are.
The database itself will be backed up as any other valuable data.
Some things I don't know, and hence the test, can I open and use my osx apps (C1, Affinity, DxO, PM5, et all) from within iMatch without having to go through a process of switching Os's (-> coherence mode in Parallels?); will iMach open apple mail to send email with attached image(s)?
How much of a performance hit will all this entail? etc...

2. My son used this setup for over 4 years in a business environment (non photo related) and assured me to never have had any problems, he actually recommended this constellation over a dedicated 'Windows box') - I hope he is right...

Well, my ssd arrived today, tomorrow its installation time...
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Re: Where to, now?

Postby HansDeZomers » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:51 am

syncrasy wrote:Just realized that Robert E's advice includes the possibility of converting nested Catalog Sets to hierarchical keywords (rather than my convoluted naming process above), then exporting the annotations. Would those be ingested properly into PSu or other software (obviously as keywords, but at least recognizing the hierarchy of the Catalog Sets)?


Catalog Sets are part of an organizing concept, while keywords are for cataloging/searching. I would not convert catalog sets to keywords unless there's no other way to carry that information over. PhotoSupreme has a script that converts Catalog Sets to its equivalent Portfolio Collections in PhotoSupreme. Why not use those? PaulDymond posted some comments about it here and at the IDimager forum, which did lead to an update of the script. You could try the script first. https://forum.idimager.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=27300

Photo Supreme (tested 2014)

That's 4 years ago, meaning 4 years of evolution. For MediaPro development not much changes in 4 years but for PhotoSupreme and iMatch and Daminion that could mean a world of difference.
Last edited by HansDeZomers on Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Where to, now?

Postby RobiWan » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:09 am

HansDeZomers wrote:
Photo Supreme (tested 2014)

That's 4 years ago, meaning 4 years of evolution. For MediaPro development not much changes in 4 years but for PhotoSupreme and iMatch and Daminion that could mean a world of difference.


This is really true :D

But I became very interested what the people doing the C1 with sessions used without MP. In Photo Supreme you can see your C1 edits - not exactly but is more than nothing (I mean its important).
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