Brush issue still exist in 11.2

Discussions, questions, comments and suggestions regarding Capture One PRO, Capture One PRO(For Sony), Capture One DB and Capture One Express(For Sony) 11.x for Mac

Brush issue still exist in 11.2

Postby asu_chic » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:11 pm

All, I am at my wits end on this issue. As of 11.0, when attempting to use layers, my cursor had the previously reported issues of density/hardness/flow not functioning properly. This was an acknowledged issue. I also had at the same time, an issue of the cursor randomly and rapidly changing from brush, eraser or grad to the cursor arrow or disappearing completely with any movement of my mouse.

I reinstalled the last 10.x in order to be able to work with layers until the 11.0.1 release, which while it did not fix the brush settings issues, at least allowed me to use the brush itself on a layer. After every update, I have had to revert to 11.0.1 in order to be able to use layers in capture one. The same issue now exists in the 11.2 release.

This has been reported several times while beta testing and no resolution. Layers is utterly unusable with this issue. I am a user since CO7 and I have never had this problem in any previous version. I have three seats and the issue is the same on each computer. Has anyone that previously reported the brush issues had any resolution either via support or the new release?? I have a studio to run, and honestly, at this point I am not sure what my next move is. Any help/ideas would be appreciated.
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Re: Brush issue still exist in 11.2

Postby Nature Isme » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:11 pm

Is the problem that layers really don't work for you, or that the Brush cursors don't show what they should, making you think that layers aren't working? Also, are you using a multi-monitor setup? The reason I ask is that C1 apparently made "design decision" change(s) in version 11.1 that messed up several things in multi-monitor setups. I think I see the same issue as you're seeing on my dual-monitor Mac Pro setup. Here's what I've found and shared with Phase One during each update release and the related beta cycles:

First, there's no problem with either of my two MacBook Pro setups. They're both "single monitor". The problem's only with my dual-monitor Mac Pro. All are running OS X Sierra.

On the Mac Pro, using keyboard shortcuts or shortcuts activated via a Wacom tablet, Brush cursors don't reflect the correct tool's cursor. For example, if I'm in the another tool and hit 'b', the toolbar indicates that Brush is selected, but the cursor remains an arrow, and the Brush really is active. If I'm brushing and hit 'e', I still see the Brush cursor (circles with '+' in the center), but the Erase tool is active. And if I'm in the Eraser and the correct cursor is showing (circles with '-' inside), and then hit 'b', the Erase cursor continues to show, but the Brush is active. Drives me CRAZY. I've sent them screen videos showing this, log files, etc. To the point that I'm done trying.

Then I discovered something interesting. If I click on the tools' icons, the correct cursor shows. Also, if after I hit the Return, Enter, Caps Lock, or certain other non-alphanumeric keys after a tool keyboard shortcut, the correct cursor shows. So if I hit 'b' [Return], I get the Brush cursor every time. And 'e' [Return] always gives me the Erase cursor along with the tool. You might want to try this.

Then, knowing that they made a "design decision" in 11.1 to change C1 to always keep floating pallets on ALL monitors visible (a touted feature in the 11.1 release) all the time (contrary to the way every other app I have works), it was clear that they changed how C1 handles multiple monitors. In 11.1 and later, if I want to see contents from other apps, I need to Hide C1, then unhide it after I'm done; I can't simply use the App Switcher (Cmd-Tab) to change focus to other apps. Or maybe Phase One wants me to buy a third monitor so I can easily view client directions while I browse images :-(

Knowing this and also that the cursor problem doesn't exist on my MBPs, I switched the MP workspace to use only a single monitor. Voilå! Cursor problem is gone!

Bottom line: Layers and all tools work for me (and may be working for you) with multiple monitors, but 11.1 introduced two UI bugs that keep me in 11.0.1. I find it needlessly cumbersome to deal with the cursor bug by clicking on the toolbar icon or hitting [Return] after using keyboard shortcuts, and I really need to see the correct cursor. And I hate the way C1 elements on the secondary monitor no longer hide when switching to another app (this helps a lot with my client workflow, as I can easily view client instructions when browsing images). I also liked it when C1 respected Finder Focus like apps from vendors like Apple, Microsoft, Adobe, and a plethora of others. But this is what Phase One apparently decided they want to do.

So for now I'm like you, staying on 11.0.1 because I'd rather deal with a little more crashing than with the UI issues in later versions. But I'm really worried about future versions. If Phase One can't fix these problems in v11, I don't know what I'll do about upgrading to v12 and beyond. I strongly dislike the new UI behavior. An important reason I chose C1 over LR is that it enabled me to use my secondary monitor as I wanted to, but with the new "behavior", forcing me to choose between flawed multi-monitor support and using a single monitor for my workspaces, I may need to reconsider alternatives if 11.0.1 stops working on my setup or if I get a new camera.
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Re: Brush issue still exist in 11.2

Postby asu_chic » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:09 pm

Thank you for your response. No, I do not use duel monitors or HD. I am on Sierra 10.12.6., MacPro, 32G, 3.2 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon, AMD Radeon HD 7950 3072 MB, NEC P242w..

I cannot use the layers, other than when using 11.0.1, because the BRUSH cannot be used. It behaves as described above.
It does not matter if I choose the brush, eraser, or grid from the menu dropdown, the icon on the menu bar, or the icon in the layer tab, it behaves the same. It will NOT retain it's identity as a brush, cursor, eraser or grid long enough to draw with it, thus rendering layers useless. Period.

This applies to the other two Macs in my studio which have CO installed a MBP, and a Mac Mini 2012 both of which are on Sierra also. I too am worried about any updated version. I love CO, but will not spend money on something that cannot be used. They really have to get this fixed. SOON. I will try your suggestion of entering an alternative key to see if that makes the brush work when I have the chance to reload 11.2 and try it. Thanks.
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Re: Brush issue still exist in 11.2

Postby ShaneB » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:41 am

Nature Isme wrote:Then I discovered something interesting. If I click on the tools' icons, the correct cursor shows. Also, if after I hit the Return, Enter, Caps Lock, or certain other non-alphanumeric keys after a tool keyboard shortcut, the correct cursor shows. So if I hit 'b' [Return], I get the Brush cursor every time. And 'e' [Return] always gives me the Erase cursor along with the tool. You might want to try this.


Not for me. The only way to see the brush or eraser on my dual monitor iMac is to hit a square bracket - then the brush appears. Then, I can swap between brush and eraser using "b" and "e" and the icon remains on the screen.

I really don't get this and I wish the Capture One team would fix it.
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Re: Brush issue still exist in 11.2

Postby outdoorslover » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:24 am

+1 - I'm having weird cursor issues with the Brush & Eraser tool on layers too with v11.1. I'll be brushing or erasing, and my pointer completely disappears or turns into an arrow, yet I can continue doing painting or erasing. At some point, a few seconds later, the pointer will come back. It's very frustrating.
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Re: Brush issue still exist in 11.2

Postby asu_chic » Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:00 pm

outdoorslover wrote:+1 - I'm having weird cursor issues with the Brush & Eraser tool on layers too with v11.1. I'll be brushing or erasing, and my pointer completely disappears or turns into an arrow, yet I can continue doing painting or erasing. At some point, a few seconds later, the pointer will come back. It's very frustrating.


Yup. I get that version of the issue also. As I indicated to support, for me, 11.1 broke something with the brushes. Version 11.0.1 fixed the cursor issue to the point is was usable, but there was still the other brush settings issues. 11.1.1 was thought to be the fix, but even those who initially thought it worked advised that it did not. For me, it was the worst yet.

Something, obviously I do not know what, was changed, modified, removed, added or ??? when version 11.1 was released that rendered these issues with the brushes, which was partially fixed in 11.0.1, and reverted in later versions. As a beta tester, I will only say that the first beta worked well, and the following releases returned the brush issue. This was reported. It is for wiser souls than I to figure out what changes triggered these brush issues. I strongly suspect that these have occurred due to unintended side effects of intended changes which may or may not be easy to identify. Perhaps some changes only effect certain computer or software configurations, but I can say it is consistent across my units which are not identical. The brushes cannot be used in any professional environment as they now function for me.
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Re: Brush issue still exist in 11.2

Postby Nature Isme » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:00 pm

+1 for the Brush cursor suddenly turning into the arrow or vanishing completely.

Since this only happens with dual-monitor tool configurations, I suspect it has to do with P1's decision to change the way multiple monitors are treated. Prior to 11.1, C1 respected the Mac's Finder focus, but it was changed in 11.1 so that all C1 elements get drawn on all monitors even when C1's not the frontmost app.

Since it seems that several reported this bug to P1 during betas, I'd suggest to file support cases, reporting them as bugs in the final product releases.

One thing that really surprised me is that P1 decided to make such an important change in a 'dot' release.

I'm strongly tempted to ask David a question on one of his upcoming webinars. With that attention, maybe one of his back line support people can "encourage" a fix.
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Re: Brush issue still exist in 11.2

Postby Ian3 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:40 pm

Nature Isme wrote:+1 for the Brush cursor suddenly turning into the arrow or vanishing completely.

Since this only happens with dual-monitor tool configurations...

It doesn't. I see this and don't have dual monitors.

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Re: Brush issue still exist in 11.2

Postby ShaneB » Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:47 am

Ian3 wrote:
Nature Isme wrote:+1 for the Brush cursor suddenly turning into the arrow or vanishing completely.

Since this only happens with dual-monitor tool configurations...

It doesn't. I see this and don't have dual monitors.

Ian


It seems to be dual-monitor related here. I switched to a single monitor workspace yesterday and the brush was fine.

That said, I think we're all in furious agreement that Capture One needs to fix this - whatever the cause.
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Re: Brush issue still exist in 11.2

Postby asu_chic » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:50 am

As Ian3 stated and I indicated in my prior post here and the 11.1 downgrade thread, I do not use dual monitors with any of my macs and I have the same issue on all 3 that I use with CO. It is an issue that must be fixed.
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Re: Brush issue still exist in 11.2

Postby NN635412042358493300UL » Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:27 am

I'm having the same issue right now, working on a 2015 macbook pro with no second monitor. And what happened to the keyboard shortcuts for brush and gradient?
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Re: Brush issue still exist in 11.2

Postby Ian3 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:15 am

NN635412042358493300UL wrote:I'm having the same issue right now, working on a 2015 macbook pro with no second monitor. And what happened to the keyboard shortcuts for brush and gradient?

I have no problems with B for brush, E for erase and G for gradient.

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Re: Brush issue still exist in 11.2

Postby asu_chic » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:26 pm

NN635412042358493300UL wrote:I'm having the same issue right now, working on a 2015 macbook pro with no second monitor. And what happened to the keyboard shortcuts for brush and gradient?


I had this happen on one of the attempts to update. Check keyboard shortcuts. Look under Cursors/Layers. The brush, eraser and grid shortcuts were gone. Just type in B, E, G if they are missing. This is not the brush issue cure however.

I may have solved my brush issue, donno for sure. I am going to do more testing and will let you all know tomorrow if it now is "fixed". Not trying to be dramatic. Just damn tired of working on it and don't want to spout off and find it stops working. :|
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Re: Brush issue still exist in 11.2

Postby asu_chic » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:51 pm

Hi All. I am reporting back what I know regarding this issue at this point. As of now, I have CO 11.2 brushes apparently working. I have tested both yesterday and today for several hours to see if it continues to work. At this point I can say "yes" with the following glitches. I did notice the cursor issue briefly for a moment. This occurred when clicking on a mask created when I was on CO11.0.1 or earlier. Clearing the mask and redrawing worked fine. The adjustments did not change. I had an issue of the mask disappearing from an adjustment layer when opening a previously worked on image. Again, the adjustments remained, only the mask had to be redrawn, as thought the "clear mask" option had been chosen. This occurred twice that I am aware of in all the hours of testing.

What finally worked for me:
1. I went directly to PhaseOne and logged in to download 11.2. I did not download it via the CO update.
2. I opened the download and chose "keep both copies". I then opened the CO 11.2 as a 30 day trial, not activating.
3. I opened various sessions and tested extensively with the trial app. After hours of use the brushes continued to work.
4. I closed out the trial version and then opened CO 11.0.1 and deactivated my copy.
5. I reopened CO 11.2 trial and chose activate and entered my key. Upon opening, the app worked. WHY NOW?

The only difference I could find was that the trial version opened with the default work space, and versions upgraded by using "replace" or upgrading through the application software update opened with my custom workspace. I decided to test this theory and clicked on my custom work space. The cursor issue was there in all it's glory. I switched back and all was working. Over the course of the next few hours yesterday afternoon, after deleting all old workspaces, I slowly added, deleted and moved items as I wished them placed in the tool bars or tabs, checking each and every time to see if all was well. I created my custom work space that works for me and I now have the brushes working with the exception of the previously described momentary glitches. Unfortunately, this does not answer the question as to what actually caused this to happen in the first place, and I cannot verify that this will work for anyone else. Maybe it is a setting, a playlist, or a small bit of data that somehow does not play nice while upgrading via the app or replacement. Donno. I do know that as of this moment at least, I have CO 11.2 working. I hope this helps someone else. :wink:

FYI: None of my other user created or downloaded customizations/settings were altered or lost by using or opening the trial version. Only the custom workspace had to be rebuilt.
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Re: Brush issue still exist in 11.2

Postby DAndison » Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:34 am

asu_chic wrote:Hi All. I am reporting back what I know regarding this issue at this point. As of now, I have CO 11.2 brushes apparently working. I have tested both yesterday and today for several hours to see if it continues to work. At this point I can say "yes" with the following glitches. I did notice the cursor issue briefly for a moment. This occurred when clicking on a mask created when I was on CO11.0.1 or earlier. Clearing the mask and redrawing worked fine. The adjustments did not change. I had an issue of the mask disappearing from an adjustment layer when opening a previously worked on image. Again, the adjustments remained, only the mask had to be redrawn, as thought the "clear mask" option had been chosen. This occurred twice that I am aware of in all the hours of testing.

What finally worked for me:
1. I went directly to PhaseOne and logged in to download 11.2. I did not download it via the CO update.
2. I opened the download and chose "keep both copies". I then opened the CO 11.2 as a 30 day trial, not activating.
3. I opened various sessions and tested extensively with the trial app. After hours of use the brushes continued to work.
4. I closed out the trial version and then opened CO 11.0.1 and deactivated my copy.
5. I reopened CO 11.2 trial and chose activate and entered my key. Upon opening, the app worked. WHY NOW?

The only difference I could find was that the trial version opened with the default work space, and versions upgraded by using "replace" or upgrading through the application software update opened with my custom workspace. I decided to test this theory and clicked on my custom work space. The cursor issue was there in all it's glory. I switched back and all was working. Over the course of the next few hours yesterday afternoon, after deleting all old workspaces, I slowly added, deleted and moved items as I wished them placed in the tool bars or tabs, checking each and every time to see if all was well. I created my custom work space that works for me and I now have the brushes working with the exception of the previously described momentary glitches. Unfortunately, this does not answer the question as to what actually caused this to happen in the first place, and I cannot verify that this will work for anyone else. Maybe it is a setting, a playlist, or a small bit of data that somehow does not play nice while upgrading via the app or replacement. Donno. I do know that as of this moment at least, I have CO 11.2 working. I hope this helps someone else. :wink:

FYI: None of my other user created or downloaded customizations/settings were altered or lost by using or opening the trial version. Only the custom workspace had to be rebuilt.


This worked for me.... for a little while and the problem has now come back. I really do hope they sort this out as it is a PITA. Makes it very hard to know what if and when you are actually painting in a mask.
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