All Images - The Pie Progress - What is C1 Doing?

Discussions, questions, comments and suggestions regarding Capture One PRO, Capture One PRO(For Sony), Capture One DB and Capture One Express(For Sony) 11.x for Mac

Re: All Images - The Pie Progress - What is C1 Doing?

Postby SFA » Thu May 03, 2018 5:37 pm

xplatinum wrote:I get that but then why charge the same amount for both platforms? It's absurd that Windows users are getting less quality and support.


Would you want 2 different licenses if you happened to use both Apple and Windows?

If one accepts that more users choose Mac hardware then the cost of development and support on Mac is spread across more licences than the costs of Windows support. I suspect more effort is involved in Windows support (because more things are built into the controlled Mac OS and used directly by the code - sometimes a benefit, sometimes not.)

The only real difference - other than the way that the different OS's implement features (or fail to implement features) is the availability of Apple Script - something that perhaps has more development and more consistent support from Apple than one might expect from a similar Microsoft product given their recent history.

But in any case whilst there are differences I personally don't see a wide gap in what is available in the core software for the typical user who would have no intention of getting into any form of programming.

I don't really think there is a strong case yet made for the claim of Mac preference and Windows ignored in the first place.



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Re: All Images - The Pie Progress - What is C1 Doing?

Postby RobiWan » Thu May 03, 2018 6:10 pm

SFA wrote:I don't really think there is a strong case yet made for the claim of Mac preference and Windows ignored in the first place.


Already to version 10.x I got response from the support, that the 2 BUGS, in next update are fixed. Nothing happens. Then came the promise that it will happen next release so 11.0. Then came the statement that for time reasons they can not do it anymore. But in any case it gets fixed with 11.1. Shortly before the Release came the statement that it is unfortunately not possible, because here a redesign of the database is necessary. Which is not true by the way.

If that's not enough, then I do not know.

By the way, even for a backup, an interface would be a great relief.

It talks so easy if you yourself are not affected by the problems!!!
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Re: All Images - The Pie Progress - What is C1 Doing?

Postby gusferlizi » Thu May 03, 2018 10:55 pm

RobiWan wrote: when I report a BUG comes back, we can not reproduce

So true I nearly spat my tea. :lol: :lol: :lol:

If the support ticket page wasn't so low contrast it would be much easier to converse with the helpdesks.
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Re: All Images - The Pie Progress - What is C1 Doing?

Postby MPW1950-2 » Sun May 06, 2018 11:34 am

This my biggest bugbear with v11.1 and has been for some time now. I do all my image editing in C1Pro on Win 10 (8 core CPU and 16Gb ram) and there is no way I am switching to Apple (too closed and controlling comapny) or subscribing to Adobe. I now use Fuji X, previously Canon, so I have limited choice of raw converter/image processor. I use a catalog wioth 80k+ images.

This has been a problem for several versions. As a former programmer surely this processing should be happening in a background thread, especially once the selected page of image previews/thumbnails have been loaded?

If anybody comes along with a an alternative raw converter that works well with Fuji RAF files (Iridient on Win perhaps) I would be very tempted to switch even though in pretty well all other respects I am very happy with C1Pro. I have been a user since I picked up a copy of Version 1 or 2 at Focus photo exhibition in the UK, probably in 2003 or 4. SO as you can image switching would be a big decision as all my processing is stored in C1 catalog.

Come on Phase One, in most other respects your support is good, but with this problem, and it is a problem, you are letting yourself and the product down. I will raise a bug report when my Anti-virus (Panda Adaptive Defense 360) removes its block on v 11.1.1 and I can create log file.
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Re: All Images - The Pie Progress - What is C1 Doing?

Postby RobiWan » Wed May 09, 2018 7:24 pm

MPW1950-2 wrote:If anybody comes along with a an alternative raw converter that works well with Fuji RAF files


I'm not Fuji user but i'm testing ON1 Photo RAW and I find the software is pretty good
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Re: All Images - The Pie Progress - What is C1 Doing?

Postby easycass » Thu May 10, 2018 5:27 am

Thank you everyone for your comments.

I actually wrote an extension of this thread, with my comments about the poor functioning of the DAM and database operations, in a long letter to Phase One, which I also posted on this forum (viewtopic.php?t=28284&f=72). Don't bother to click that link; it appears that the whole thread has now been deleted. :(

While I understand the right of the moderators to delete any posts that might be offensive or in bad taste, I believe that deletion of well-balanced and constructive posts that indicate a failing of the software is not really in the spirit of an open feedback forum for users. This now leaves a rather bad taste, and I would not be surprised to see this post/thread be deleted along with it.

It is a shame that such a successful company as PhaseOne cannot readily accept the feedback of its user base, and take that information in a positive manner to proactively enhance their software. I certainly do not post here or send them bug reports as any form of malice. I believe that as a whole, the Capture One software design is pretty good, and better than almost all the rest, and we, as users, are just trying to feedback those issues, which, if fixed, would propel the software to greater heights.

Rather sad at the outcome, but for now, I will continue to provide feedback and hope that the next version of the software will fix some of the major flaws regularly highlighted by its users.
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Re: All Images - The Pie Progress - What is C1 Doing?

Postby RobiWan » Thu May 10, 2018 7:50 pm

easycass wrote:Don't bother to click that link; it appears that the whole thread has now been deleted. :(


This is nothing new that Phase One can not deal with critical posts and instead of taking a position simply deletes the posts.
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Re: All Images - The Pie Progress - What is C1 Doing?

Postby pope » Sun May 13, 2018 5:11 am

I have reported this issue formally. Has everyone else done so too? I'm willing to bother them through official channels in order to get this resolved. I hate that this isn't an issue on MacOS but is on windows
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Re: All Images - The Pie Progress - What is C1 Doing?

Postby easycass » Sun May 13, 2018 6:20 am

pope wrote:I have reported this issue formally. Has everyone else done so too?


Yes, I have. I generally write a message to their Support page, and have now started copying those things into the forum, although my recent post-deletion makes me less likely to do so in the future. I will generally give them a list of all the things I have found 'faulty', and the response is usually that the 'information has been passed onto the developers'...

I do wonder... They must surely know about these various issues, the problems are just so blatant, so I guess it must come down to the importance they place on the issue. Anything that does not rate high enough, will remain outstanding for numerous version updates. I don't know if the importance they place on an issue is proportional to the amount of times it is highlighted to them, but worth a try I guess...
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Re: All Images - The Pie Progress - What is C1 Doing?

Postby RobiWan » Sun May 13, 2018 3:13 pm

pope wrote:I have reported this issue formally. Has everyone else done so too?


Of course and I know other people who did it. Meanwhile, we all turn away from the company to different software.
It's a shame but this situation for years is unacceptable.
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Re: All Images - The Pie Progress - What is C1 Doing?

Postby pope » Sun May 13, 2018 5:28 pm

Yeeesh. When I was working with support it was like they had no idea what I was talking about and if this was even an issue at all.
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Re: All Images - The Pie Progress - What is C1 Doing?

Postby David532 » Mon May 14, 2018 11:53 am

I am sure I have raised this when beta testing and have had the can't reproduce reply. The problem is that I do not think that they test with a nearly big enough data set.
I have to patiently wait 6 minutes for everything to load before I can do a search of my complete 37000 image collection.
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Re: All Images - The Pie Progress - What is C1 Doing?

Postby SFA » Mon May 14, 2018 12:59 pm

David532 wrote:I am sure I have raised this when beta testing and have had the can't reproduce reply. The problem is that I do not think that they test with a nearly big enough data set.
I have to patiently wait 6 minutes for everything to load before I can do a search of my complete 37000 image collection.


I don't have a big enough catalogue (being a session user) to check this.

However my current project is a session with just over 1500 images so the pie slice takes a little while to complete and gives me time to check a few things.

The is nothing, in the session process at least, that prevents me from applying any of the several filter methods available while the pie is completing and the results are delivered almost instantaneously. To clarify that - it I select search criteria that will return only a few images it's instantaneous. If I select something that will include 50% of the total it may not be quite instantaneous to complete the full selection but shortens the load time and the image count adjusts immediately if using a pre-prepared index - star rating for example or any of the filters listed in the Library tab.

Now this is a brief and very unscientific test but was quick to try. I don't think I have a catalog with more that a few hundred images - so hardly enough to allow using a filter before a full load would complete.

If someone with a large catalog could try something similar and see different results I could cobble a large catalog together and run a test but I don't really have the time to do so today - nor the inclination unless I know it's something that is worth doing!


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Re: All Images - The Pie Progress - What is C1 Doing?

Postby easycass » Mon May 14, 2018 2:06 pm

David532 wrote:I have to patiently wait 6 minutes for everything to load before I can do a search of my complete 37000 image collection.


Hmmm, that is interesting; very similar to what I had initially. Just for you to compare, I thought I would explain in more detail my current situation...

I used to have to wait for many things to settle down when I opened my 75,000 image database. I had the following issues after importing (raw files, plus sidecar XMP files that had been generated from LR): -

1. Selecting all images would lock me out of doing anything for minutes, tens of minutes sometimes.
2. The pie counter at the top would take approximately 20+ minutes to complete.
3. Although previews were generated on import, thumbnails were not (go figure). So, anytime I scrolled to thumbnails that had not looked at before, they were generated. This occasionally caused me to have to wait.
4. Keywords were a mess, and not in the nice hierarchy I had in LR. Changing a keyword on a few images, I would have to wait until the action was complete before I could continue.
5. Every time I selected a folder or all images, all the filter counters would regenerate, starting from no images, until all 75,000 had been looked at. Sometimes, clicking on a filter to display those images would cause the counting to begin again.
6. Any smart collections with more than a thousand images would lock out the program for quite a few minutes.
7. Lots of waiting around, with no program response, and occasional window 'flashing', with title bar showing 'not responding', etc.
8. Trying to verify and repair the database, I found it produced errors and sometimes came back as 'cannot be repaired'. I would have to go back to a backup database file at time.

However, I progressively did the following over a few days: -

1. Go through all keywords, and clean-up into a totally new hierarchy. This caused a lot of time in between a keyword change or hierarchy move. It would also cause the program to appear to hang, but if I waited 20 minutes, I would get back control. Every time I found this happening severely, I went and did step 2.
2. Load in a dummy database and then go and do a verify and repair my main database. I found that a repair was possible if the main database was completely unloaded and a dummy database was loaded. I repeated step 1 until all keywords were fine, and no more database corruptions were occurring.

So, now, when I start the program, I still get the pie thing happening, counting from zero to 75K images, but my filter panel starts up fully populated and does no longer regenerate. I am not locked out of doing anything, but occasionally switching folder or clicking back on all images, or hitting some filters, causes a few seconds delay. It is not fluid, but I no longer get database corruptions.

It took me more than a week to get things kind of stable. But, if I do something complicated beyond selection a few images, such as creating a smart collection, I get program no-response for a few minutes. I just leave it until it gives me back control.

That's where I am at anyway...
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Re: All Images - The Pie Progress - What is C1 Doing?

Postby David532 » Mon May 14, 2018 3:44 pm

SFA:
I am in 2 minds about using Lightroom for the catalogue and then using Capture One in session mode (which is what I used to do). When I do this I set up a single session and, this is important, totally ignore this session specific folders, albums and favorites and work entirely in the system folders which I have set up in a highly structured manner (folders for holidays with sub-folders for location and sub-sub-folders for date etc.for instance). In this way I can search the Lightroom database, note the location, and then open the Capture One session and locate the picture I want to work on in the system folders.

easycass:

I had similar struggles in getting my keywords from Lightroom into the Capture One catalogue, somehow, and I am now not sure how, I succeeded at the expense of my hard drives being littered with thousands of xmp files which I have since deleted as I have no further use for them.
I have notice that during the 6 minutes of thumbnail creation (if that's what's going on) the keyword list in the Library Tool Tab populates immediately but selecting a keyword does not show the associated pictures till the orange disk action has got round to them which if they are at the end of your selected sort order could be a long time.
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