Crop on Exported Photos

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Re: Crop on Exported Photos

Postby SFA » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:09 pm

This all seems very strange.

I feel a need to better understand Photo Mechanic to see if there is some sort of interesting feature that may be coming into play for some reason.


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Re: Crop on Exported Photos

Postby Dizzy82 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:14 pm

having problems with posting images in my posts, hope this works.

Image

so, here is a printscreen of jpg files as they are seen in Photo Mechanic. no visible crops but then I opened one of the images in Photomechanic Camera RAW (the same would happen in Lightroom) - the image appears to be cropped.

this is how image should look:

Image

but when opened in Camera Raw, a small crop is applied - it is the same crop I have used during editing in C1.

Image
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Re: Crop on Exported Photos

Postby Dizzy82 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:15 pm

SFA wrote:This all seems very strange.

I feel a need to better understand Photo Mechanic to see if there is some sort of interesting feature that may be coming into play for some reason.


Grant


honestly, Photo Mechanic has nothing to do with it - it is just a fast culling machine, making my life much much easier. it is very similar to Adobe Bridge - in fact, I can instal Adobe Bridge to see what happens there ...
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Re: Crop on Exported Photos

Postby SFA » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:39 pm

Dizzy82 wrote:
SFA wrote:This all seems very strange.

I feel a need to better understand Photo Mechanic to see if there is some sort of interesting feature that may be coming into play for some reason.


Grant


honestly, Photo Mechanic has nothing to do with it - it is just a fast culling machine, making my life much much easier. it is very similar to Adobe Bridge - in fact, I can instal Adobe Bridge to see what happens there ...


I understand that but as I have never seen such an effect in any other viewer when viewing exported or processed jpgs and there seems to be no mechanism about how it might happen one has to wonder how PM is managing to display the image at original size with an indication of a crop overlayed.

C1 does that for Thumbnails but that's based on having access to the Preview file and/or the Original source image.

Out of interest, are the jpgs saved in the same folder as the original source files?


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Re: Crop on Exported Photos

Postby Dizzy82 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:51 pm

nope, different folder.

also, installed Bridge, opened the same folder - see little crop marks ... so Adobe Bridge acts the same, there are crops in exported edited jpgs.

Image

also, all images are exported in 3600x2400 size and due to crop you can see the new size.

so yes, I guess there is a setting in C1 that does that, unfortunately I have no idea where this setting is and how to turn it off.
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Re: Crop on Exported Photos

Postby Paul_Steunebrink » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:23 pm

What I do not get from all the screenshots and text is whether the issue affects a JPG file or a RAW file. And the JPG files, are they from the camera or from Capture One?
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Re: Crop on Exported Photos

Postby Dizzy82 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:08 pm

these are all jpg photos, which were edited in C1 20 and exported.

so, workflow:
1) raw photos culled in Photo Mechanic
2) import into C1 20
3) edit
4) export from C1 20
5) final selection of exported jpgs, adding caption in Photo Mechanic and upload to FTP

because of the nr.5, the crop on exported photos can be problematic as with some of my clients, editors take over these jpgs and with this crop problem, photos might come out very strangely cropped, if you understand me. with other editing software, exported, edited jpg is a finished work, but in C1 edited finished jpg file contains a crop. as I said, this is a crop I did during edit and somehow this same crop gets through during export and the final edit might look a bit different than it is supposed to.

I hope you understand me as this is quite difficult to explain. :)
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Re: Crop on Exported Photos

Postby SFA » Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:50 am

That suggests to me that PM is combining what it knows of the file (at full size) from the initial load (Step 1) with what it gets back from C1 as a "finished" file. Perhaps overlaid in some way?

In fact it may be doing that will all the images but its only obvious with the cropped images in your workflow.

I'm guess as I have no knowledge of PM.


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Last edited by SFA on Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Crop on Exported Photos

Postby photoGrant » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:02 am

What happens when you clear the crop from an example problem image in PhotoMechanic?

OPT + C
SHIFT + C
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Re: Crop on Exported Photos

Postby Paul_Steunebrink » Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:23 am

SFA wrote:That suggests to me that PM is combining what it knows of the file (at full size) from the initial load (Step 1) with what it gets back from C1as a "finished" file. Perhaps overlaid in some way?

In fact it may be doing that will all the images but its only obvious with the cropped images in your workflow.

I'm guess as I have no knowledge of PM.

That makes some sense, Grant. I do have PM, and use it for years. I had never had this problem but do not have the same workflow.

@Dizzy82: have you been in touch with PM support? They are a bunch of very helpful guys and girls.
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Re: Crop on Exported Photos

Postby Dizzy82 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:01 am

again - I really don't think it is Photo Mechanic related thing. same thing happens in Finder, Lightroom, Adobe Bridge ... but only Photo Mechanic and Adobe Bridge show these crops ...

if I edit photos with the same workflow in LR or Photoshop Camera RAW, exported jpgs are exported jpgs, no additional crops or adjustments whatsoever ...
also, I always export photos to a completely different folder ... different structure ... one folder with a subfolder contains raw photos and then other folder with different subfolders contain edited exported jpgs.

I am still trying to reproduce this problem, but sometimes these crop adjustments are not visible until the image is opened in Lightroom ...
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Re: Crop on Exported Photos

Postby Dizzy82 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:19 am

photoGrant wrote:What happens when you clear the crop from an example problem image in PhotoMechanic?

OPT + C
SHIFT + C


luckily, Photo Mechanic (and as I discovered also Adobe Bridge) show these crop overlays and I am also able to remove them with a command but I am a bit afraid one day in a hurry I might send photos to FTP without removing crops and then editor on the other side of the FTP would think that I have no slightest idea about how to properly frame the photos. :lol:
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Re: Crop on Exported Photos

Postby SFA » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:29 am

So if you add a crop to a jpg and export the variant to a completely different folder as a smaller dimension file than the original when you look again at that image you see a full size version, not the reduced size cropped version, with a crop mark indicator displayed over it. DO you get the same result if you edit a RAW file in C1 and export the jpg?

Have I got that right so far?

This also happens on your system if you view the C1 generated JPG image using Finder, LR or Adobe Bridge. ?

But it does not happen if you edit a RAW file in LR or Camera RAW and export to jpg. However if you have cropped the file in LR or ACR before exporting presumably you only see the cropped version? (I'm a little unsure that I fully understand as you also wrote "no additional crops or adjustments whatsoever ..." and in the context of the discussion to date I was not sure whether that meant the resulting output was original full size or the edited crop area size. It's the "additional crops" part that leaves me concerned about assuming I have fully understood.

Out of interest, what happens if you export as a PSD file with and without the "crop to path" option set?

Also, for completeness, which JPG file type option are you using?

JPG, JPG2000, JPG XR or JPG Quickproof?


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Re: Crop on Exported Photos

Postby Dizzy82 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:54 am

you just gave me an idea. usually I only work with RAW files. I did a test with JPG images and exported files are like that, exported, nothing else, final version with nothing else on them.

I know this one is hard to explain through the world wide web :) , but I hope we understand where the problem is.

so, if I apply crop correction during edit to original jpg photo in C1, then export it, the photo looks like it should. but ...
if I apply crop correction during edit to original raw photo in C1, then export it, the photo carries the crop applied through the export procedure and is then cropped again (and the crop is exactly the same as I applied it in C1).
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Re: Crop on Exported Photos

Postby Dizzy82 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:59 am

and just to add a fun fact - my workflow used to be like this (and actually nothing to do with the debate going on here, it's just ... ironic :D ):

1) ingest photos with Photo Mechanic (I still do that, it is so automatic for me I forgot to mention this as step 1 earlier)
2) culling ingested photo and applying crop corrections in Photo Mechanic (much faster than doing this in LR/PS Camera Raw)
3) import images to Lightroom/Photoshop Camera Raw
4) Lightroom/PS Camera Raw sensed these crops, add basic color correction
5) export images to Photo Mechanic, add captions, rename, send to FTP

now, due to Capture One not sensing crops from Photo Mechanic I stopped doing that and also later versions of LR and Photoshop Camera Raw fixed this immense lag during crop corrections so I started cropping in C1/LR/PS again - and now the opposite thing is happening ... images after edit have crops. funny in a way. :lol: :lol:
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