Dissatisfaction with Capture One Tech Support

Discussions, questions, comments and suggestions regarding Capture One PRO, Capture One PRO For Sony / Fujifilm, Capture One for Phase One and Capture One Express For Sony / For Fujifilm 20.x for Mac

Re: Dissatisfaction with C1 Tech Support

Postby SFA » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:41 pm

IanL wrote:Sorry, I was talking about over at Affinity. The claim was made that the Affinity team was working on a DAM product. I found little evidence of that but a year old.


I've just spent a few minutes reading through some of the most recent posts on the Affinity forums, regular problems reports and the beta forums.

All sorts of subjects being discussed including some surprises from Apple, whether or not a DAM would be a good idea (but I didn't see anything that looked like an official comment or guidance.

Nothing that looked like some discussion about an LR/C1 type application.

Several comments about getting existing long standing bugs "fixed" before starting anything new.

A number of people looking forward to getting Canon CR3 support whenever the current beta is shipped.

Etc.

All in all much the same sort of discussions as can be found here though perhaps a little less active in some ways and maybe somewhat more polite. I few people are especially polite and seemingly appreciative of the work being undertaken year on year.

The forums certainly seems to have a different 'feel' to them but that aside the content was quite similar although perhaps not as "intensely" discussed.

My impression has not changed compared to my last visit - which I have remembered was to discover what I could about CR3 file support availability.

FWIW the last time I took a look at the Adobe forums (again not especially recently) I got the same feeling of familiarity.

Where else should I look? There could be a thesis in this browsing...

Meanwhile thank you IanL. I think my perception generally agree with yours.

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Re: Dissatisfaction with C1 Tech Support

Postby Horseoncowboy » Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:04 am

grant

psychologist call this "selective perception" being only able to see what you want to see :-)

so without surprise your report could not find anything I have pointed out especially not how support, developers and user interact and maybe there has been a change of plan but .....MattP / Stuff posted this:

Posted December 20, 2017
I know I'm arriving at this party very late (because I didn't see it until now...) but nobody is trying to 'not answer' anything and there are no 'difficult questions' - there are only questions that some moderators may not know the answer to as they're not privy to all information. I'll say this: I'm sitting next to the guys that are writing the DAM... It's a thing.

and

Meb / Stuff

Posted February 13, 2019

The DAM app was already discussed in several threads on the forums, mentioned on twitter and in a few interviews. There's wasn't an "official" statement, press release or something along those lines because we are still far away from its release - there's really nothing to disclose/discuss at this point other than what was revealed. It's way to soon for that.

but now lets get back to our real problem.....
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Re: Dissatisfaction with C1 Tech Support

Postby picman2 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:23 am

I have little problems with C1 and it still is my nr 1. However, since we are comparing to other softwares, what do you think about ON1 as an alternative?
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Re: Dissatisfaction with C1 Tech Support

Postby Ian3 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:42 am

picman2 wrote:I have little problems with C1 and it still is my nr 1. However, since we are comparing to other softwares, what do you think about ON1 as an alternative?

This is a comment about the software, not the tech support. I have tried ON1, and I have ON1 2019. I have decided not to pay for ON1 2020.

ON1 is a different kind of application. It aims more to combine DAM, raw conversion and pixel editing. So you might use ON1 as a one-stop solution instead of a combination of, say Lightroom + Photoshop, or Capture One + Affinity Photo. I find I can get reasonable results out of it. But with version 2019 at least, it struggles on my older Macs, for instance, there is such a lag on applying brush strokes that it becomes almost unworkable. It is claimed that version 2020 has improved this, but I have not tried it. As with most apps, I like what I am accustomed to and find the different ways it works from Capture One frustrating. (Much the same feeling, I think, as ex Lightroom users express here sometimes, along the lines of why doesn't it work like Lightroom.)

Of course, on easy images it is possible to get a good result from may different apps. I haven't used it enough to discover how well it would work with problem images (for instance in controlling noise in an image shot in poor light).

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Re: Dissatisfaction with C1 Tech Support

Postby thomaskyhn » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:07 am

Ian3 wrote:As with most apps, I like what I am accustomed to and find the different ways it works from Capture One frustrating. (Much the same feeling, I think, as ex Lightroom users express here sometimes, along the lines of why doesn't it work like Lightroom.)

Regarding Lightroom vs. C1 (if you'll excuse the digression from the tech support theme). While the above covers part of my frustration with C1, it doesn't account for all of it. Certainly, many things work differently in C1, and coming from Lightroom you need to get used to that. (And I, myself, am guilty of some misunderstanding and trying people's patience.) But actual lacks and limitations, of which there are quite a few, are not just a question of C1 working differently, or for that matter C1 being based on another design philosophy – as if these lacks and limitations were the result of some consistent principle – but a question of just that: lacks and limitations.
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Re: Dissatisfaction with C1 Tech Support

Postby SFA » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:17 am

Horseoncowboy wrote:grant

psychologist call this "selective perception" being only able to see what you want to see :-)

so without surprise your report could not find anything I have pointed out especially not how support, developers and user interact and maybe there has been a change of plan but .....MattP / Stuff posted this:

Posted December 20, 2017
I know I'm arriving at this party very late (because I didn't see it until now...) but nobody is trying to 'not answer' anything and there are no 'difficult questions' - there are only questions that some moderators may not know the answer to as they're not privy to all information. I'll say this: I'm sitting next to the guys that are writing the DAM... It's a thing.

and

Meb / Stuff

Posted February 13, 2019

The DAM app was already discussed in several threads on the forums, mentioned on twitter and in a few interviews. There's wasn't an "official" statement, press release or something along those lines because we are still far away from its release - there's really nothing to disclose/discuss at this point other than what was revealed. It's way to soon for that.

but now lets get back to our real problem.....


So first mention 2 years ago and your second offering 1 year ago.

Failed psychology on your part. I did not have the will to look so far back so no selectivity from me.

I'm surprised that you found something so old with no product yet produced to be acceptable for even a rumour of a product. Would you allow Phase that sort of latitude before determining that, in your opinion, nothing was happening and they never listen to their users?


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Re: Dissatisfaction with C1 Tech Support

Postby Horseoncowboy » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:33 pm

SFA wrote:
Horseoncowboy wrote:grant

psychologist call this "selective perception" being only able to see what you want to see :-)

so without surprise your report could not find anything I have pointed out especially not how support, developers and user interact and maybe there has been a change of plan but .....MattP / Stuff posted this:

Posted December 20, 2017
I know I'm arriving at this party very late (because I didn't see it until now...) but nobody is trying to 'not answer' anything and there are no 'difficult questions' - there are only questions that some moderators may not know the answer to as they're not privy to all information. I'll say this: I'm sitting next to the guys that are writing the DAM... It's a thing.

and

Meb / Stuff

Posted February 13, 2019

The DAM app was already discussed in several threads on the forums, mentioned on twitter and in a few interviews. There's wasn't an "official" statement, press release or something along those lines because we are still far away from its release - there's really nothing to disclose/discuss at this point other than what was revealed. It's way to soon for that.

but now lets get back to our real problem.....


So first mention 2 years ago and your second offering 1 year ago.

Failed psychology on your part. I did not have the will to look so far back so no selectivity from me.

I'm surprised that you found something so old with no product yet produced to be acceptable for even a rumour of a product. Would you allow Phase that sort of latitude before determining that, in your opinion, nothing was happening and they never listen to their users?


Grant


i´m no Software engineer so I have no idea how long it takes to develop such an app from scratch but I for sure know that the same bugs which came with capture one 20 beta are still there, approaching 3 month since the first release. at this speed you can be happy that c1 ist already developed.....
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Re: Dissatisfaction with C1 Tech Support

Postby photoGrant » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:35 am

Here's an example of a beta forum with developer/support based feedback.

If the apologists can't see, or want to twist their view however they'd like to form a narrative that this company operates at the same level as others when it comes to expectations of support, and actual levels of support -- you're drinking some serious Kool aid.

https://discussions.agilebits.com/categories/1password-mac-beta
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Re: Dissatisfaction with C1 Tech Support

Postby Jeffrey411 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:22 am

Support? LMAO Whats that. P!/C1 support has been horrible from day one. When I originally bought my P back, I had a local rep that actually came to my office at times to help troubleshoot. But once that rep was gone 9we are talking 8-9 years ago) support is all but non existant. The automated responses and support responses are often not more that a joke. Ive just accepted it. If you want to use C1 (or and of their backs) you have to be willing to accept that their essentially no support. The responses to this thread confirm that I am not the only one with this crappy support experience.
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Re: Dissatisfaction with C1 Tech Support

Postby thomaskyhn » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:27 am

photoGrant wrote:Here's an example of a beta forum with developer/support based feedback.

If the apologists can't see, or want to twist their view however they'd like to form a narrative that this company operates at the same level as others when it comes to expectations of support, and actual levels of support -- you're drinking some serious Kool aid.

https://discussions.agilebits.com/categories/1password-mac-beta


And examples of non-beta software forums where users get support from the actual company:

DEVONtechnologies: https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/
Universal Audio – who, by the way, also make hardware: https://uadforum.com/forum.php?
FabFilter: https://www.fabfilter.com/forum/
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Re: Dissatisfaction with C1 Tech Support

Postby thomaskyhn » Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:44 am

NNN636440347581429185 wrote:On 12/22/19, I reported a problem "automatically" downloading images with C1 (13.0.1.19). I was able to manually import the images, so I did not lose total C1 functionality. I never experienced this problem with previous versions of C1.

On 12/22/19, I received an automated reply from C1, "Your request (xxxxx) has been received and is being reviewed by our support staff."

It is now 1/1/20 and I have not heard any response from Tech Support.

Have you heard from them yet?
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Re: Dissatisfaction with C1 Tech Support

Postby thomaskyhn » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:50 pm

I finally got a reply from support; it didn't answer my question though – regarding keystone correction – only insinuated that I didn't understand the use of keystone correction.
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Re: Dissatisfaction with C1 Tech Support

Postby photoGrant » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:06 pm

thomaskyhn wrote:I finally got a reply from support; it didn't answer my question though – regarding keystone correction – only insinuated that I didn't understand the use of keystone correction.


The key to receiving less support cases is to insult the people already submitting them. That way they likely won’t try again.

Now I understand their tactics 😂
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Re: Dissatisfaction with C1 Tech Support

Postby thomaskyhn » Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:09 pm

photoGrant wrote:
thomaskyhn wrote:I finally got a reply from support; it didn't answer my question though – regarding keystone correction – only insinuated that I didn't understand the use of keystone correction.


The key to receiving less support cases is to insult the people already submitting them. That way they likely won’t try again.

Now I understand their tactics 😂

You're definitely on to something there. I'm tempted to make a counterattack by showering them with politely phrased support requests.
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Re: Dissatisfaction with C1 Tech Support

Postby SFA » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:16 pm

thomaskyhn wrote:I finally got a reply from support; it didn't answer my question though – regarding keystone correction – only insinuated that I didn't understand the use of keystone correction.


Be careful about interpreting messages in a multi-language support and communication situation.

Many years ago working in a project in Sweden I was told a story about a a Swedish electronics company who, after many years of trying to obtain the service contract for maintaining the cash machines of a large US based Bank finally won the contract and took over the work. The deal was that if there were technical problems that needed analysis that prevented the simple despatch of an engineer to fix a problem they were to send a report about status of the activity to the Bank's internal service management team within 2 hours of the support request being created. There were significant penalties for failing to hit that time limit.

So the first call came in and they started to work on diagnosis and were so involved with the diagnosis, to the exclusion of everything else, that they failed to spot how much time was passing. After 1hr and 50 minutes someone remembered the 2 hr update requirement and they quickly prepared and sent a fax which, amongst other information, contained the sentence -

"We are hardly working in your problem".

The staff at the bank took this message exactly as written (It should have said "We are working very hard on your problem." ) and so things became a little fraught for a lot of people over that weekend and for some time beyond as the ripples passed through several layers of senior management without anyone really knowing what the "problem" was.

The original technical problem had long since been fixed to everyone's satisfaction and well within the contracted "fix" time.


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