v20 with eGPU?

Discussions, questions, comments and suggestions regarding Capture One PRO, Capture One PRO For Sony / Fujifilm, Capture One for Phase One and Capture One Express For Sony / For Fujifilm 20.x for Mac

v20 with eGPU?

Postby PSS » Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:52 pm

any ideas? just read the digital transitions "mac shopping" recommendations and GPU is listed as most important...
i heard in the past that eGPU with v12 wasnt really a big improvement,i understand that there are a wide range of external cards available and some might work better then others...
thinking of the (expensive but elegant) blackmagic pro solution, does anyone have experience?
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Re: v20 with eGPU?

Postby Nature Isme » Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:55 pm

Since there are a number of threads noting that C1 20 doesn't seem to be making much use of discrete GPUs in late model MBPs running Catalina and Mojave, I'd be surprised if a super-powerful eGPU is much help either.
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Re: v20 with eGPU?

Postby Riss » Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:14 am

Nature Isme wrote:Since there are a number of threads noting that C1 20 doesn't seem to be making much use of discrete GPUs in late model MBPs running Catalina and Mojave, I'd be surprised if a super-powerful eGPU is much help either.


I beg to differ - I use v20 in Mojave on Mac Pro 2013 with 2xD700 & 64GB and when I use eGPU (Vega Frontier) C1 does get a boost from the external card when applying edits and rendering previews. Not much, but it's noticeable when I use C1 without eGPU on same catalogues. I have not forced C1 to prefer eGPU, monitor is plugged into external card and this way C1 uses all 3 cards simultaneously.

Sadly, v20 still uses (an outdated version) of OpenCL and not Metal to speed things up, maybe that transition would yield better performance gains and extend more computational tasks to graphic card(s).

Last thing might be cost, my eGPU setup hit ±$800 mark (card + eGPU box), but I got a really good deal on that Mac Pro so it didn't hurt too much and I use it all the time to minimize thermal load on the machine.
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Re: v20 with eGPU?

Postby Claude-1300 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 11:53 am

Why do you use eGPU on a MacPro ?

Go for the Sapphire Pulse R580 (approved by Apple) in one of the PCIe slots (+/- 200 euros), and you will even get the Boot Screen on Mojave.

Besides, the card is Metal-compatible.
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Re: v20 with eGPU?

Postby PSS » Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:50 pm

i guess there is a lot of trial and error out there and i will have to just get one and check it out myself....
i am assuming adobe uses metal now? it really is a joke how much faster LR CC is compared to C1...
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Re: v20 with eGPU?

Postby Claude-1300 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:50 pm

I honestly do not know about what adobe does now.

I am not a pro, so i can’t say that every minute matters.
As long as the system is reasonably reactive (not as Nikon infamous Capture NX-D...), I can live with it if it works well.

OpenCL or Metal ?
I opted for a third-party card endorsed by Apple simply for my peace of mind.

We will see what the next updates will bring (there’s quite a bunch of work on the table...)
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Re: v20 with eGPU?

Postby fatihayoglu » Tue Dec 24, 2019 11:57 am

PSS wrote:i guess there is a lot of trial and error out there and i will have to just get one and check it out myself....
i am assuming adobe uses metal now? it really is a joke how much faster LR CC is compared to C1...


I dont know what Adobe is using for LR but CO20 still uses a dated OpenCL, so it is a joke but can't laugh
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Re: v20 with eGPU?

Postby SFA » Tue Dec 24, 2019 1:55 pm

fatihayoglu wrote:
PSS wrote:i guess there is a lot of trial and error out there and i will have to just get one and check it out myself....
i am assuming adobe uses metal now? it really is a joke how much faster LR CC is compared to C1...


I dont know what Adobe is using for LR but CO20 still uses a dated OpenCL, so it is a joke but can't laugh


What difference would a later version of OpenCL make?
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Re: v20 with eGPU?

Postby fatihayoglu » Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:48 pm

I don’t know, maybe updated optimized code for recent hardware rather than 5 yrs old one. Otherwise what’s the need for an updated version, right?
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Re: v20 with eGPU?

Postby verstaerker » Sun Dec 29, 2019 2:38 pm

i'm using CO 20 on a mac Mini with Blackmagic eGPU Pro. It's definitely using it. It's important to have the "prefer external GPU" option on. When adjusting image the usage is around 30-50%. When exporting it's near 100%.

On my Macbook Pro it's only using the AMD GPU if i switch off the system-setting "automatic change of graphic-mode“ (wich enforces the AMD GPU to be used at all times) .

I was in contact with the support about it. I demonstrated in a video the behavior. Since then i haven't heard back from then.

It would be good if they could use Metal2 instead of openCL .. i'm sure the performance would increase a lot.
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Re: v20 with eGPU?

Postby PSS » Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:53 pm

verstaerker wrote:i'm using CO 20 on a mac Mini with Blackmagic eGPU Pro. It's definitely using it. It's important to have the "prefer external GPU" option on. When adjusting image the usage is around 30-50%. When exporting it's near 100%.

On my Macbook Pro it's only using the AMD GPU if i switch off the system-setting "automatic change of graphic-mode“ (wich enforces the AMD GPU to be used at all times) .

I was in contact with the support about it. I demonstrated in a video the behavior. Since then i haven't heard back from then.

It would be good if they could use Metal2 instead of openCL .. i'm sure the performance would increase a lot.

I think we were all hoping for switch to metal with v20....oh well, maybe next year...
The mini probably needs the egpu anyway, I am not too concerned with export times, my concern is faster redraw and snappier adjustments....I would expect things to be instant with the egpu vs ok(with a slight lag) with my mbp...
I also do some basic video work which would definitely e easier with the egpu...
having to manually go into system settings sound like a pain...
are you running the egpu into the mini and the monitor from the egpu?
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Re: v20 with eGPU?

Postby SFA » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:22 pm

fatihayoglu wrote:I don’t know, maybe updated optimized code for recent hardware rather than 5 yrs old one. Otherwise what’s the need for an updated version, right?


Well one reason for for a new version of anything is to make some new features available so that more types of process can use the 'standard'.

IF the hardware and all levels of software manufacturers adopt the new standard for new products then people buying new products may find some benefit. How much benefit may be unknown. If one has a lot of coding to create in addition to what you already have, only useful to your client base if they upgrade hardware and all sorts of software, the commercial rationale AND the benefit to customers may be something of a mirage.

IF the performance benefits are always going to be huge - say 200% and saving people hours of their time - then you may be able to convince people it is worth the cost of upgrading.

If it's closer to 10% benefit and mostly of interest to hardware geeks for testing results ... maybe not so exciting.

I doubt the lowly GPU on my Notebook would be able to gain much - probably nothing - from a later version of OpenCL and the code that the developers would need to add to make use of it in some way.

As windows user I think I can be fairly sure that it will never make use of Metal - whatever that is.

For most things on my machine whether or not I am using OpenCL does not make much difference at all - yet it is still perfectly usable.

These new standards can often seem to be little more than a marketing tool to shift more product by persuading people to keep "at the cutting edge."

A similar example might be a proposal to change out SSD drives for NVMe drives for the speed advantage.

The number are huge - NVMe drives I/O is, typically , a lot fast than traditional SSD SATA3 drives.

In practical terms where will that speed advantage make a difference?

Should we all rush out and change to NVMe drives because they are faster?

Can I justify converting my NAS (2x8Terrabyte drives) to NVMe because the existing drives are slow IF I use them as a primary storage source working with C1?


Grant
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Re: v20 with eGPU?

Postby PSS » Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:07 pm

my startup (and main drive) has been NVMe for a few years and yes it is hard to go back to even SSD....i still use some actual spinning HDs but for all that stuff my data is in the cloud now because it is faster then HD....
i dont know anything about coding but i do know that a leaner os and updated apps make things faster....LR vs LR CC...night and day....pretty much anything on an iPad pro....the app and machine just gets out of the way....
i had a tether demo with the hasselblad app and their X system....the full raw files pop up so fast, its hard to notice any delay once you take your eyes off the camera finder....
in general iOS is not there yet, the hardware is, but i am not sure i would want to work with a touch screen exclusively...
i have used C1 for 15? years now, i definitely appreciate it but at some point the entire thing needs to be re-written or maybe just ported over to an app in iOS? with full integration to desktop?
this is not about bleeding edge, its about staying relevant....
i was able to ditch my mac pro for a mbp a few years ago...looking at the egpu to make that move even more permanent....who says an iPad pro wont replace the mbp in a few years? external monitor, external gpu, storage in cloud, i am all for it....
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Re: v20 with eGPU?

Postby SFA » Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:18 pm

PSS wrote:my startup (and main drive) has been NVMe for a few years and yes it is hard to go back to even SSD....i still use some actual spinning HDs but for all that stuff my data is in the cloud now because it is faster then HD....
i dont know anything about coding but i do know that a leaner os and updated apps make things faster....LR vs LR CC...night and day....pretty much anything on an iPad pro....the app and machine just gets out of the way....
i had a tether demo with the hasselblad app and their X system....the full raw files pop up so fast, its hard to notice any delay once you take your eyes off the camera finder....
in general iOS is not there yet, the hardware is, but i am not sure i would want to work with a touch screen exclusively...
i have used C1 for 15? years now, i definitely appreciate it but at some point the entire thing needs to be re-written or maybe just ported over to an app in iOS? with full integration to desktop?
this is not about bleeding edge, its about staying relevant....
i was able to ditch my mac pro for a mbp a few years ago...looking at the egpu to make that move even more permanent....who says an iPad pro wont replace the mbp in a few years? external monitor, external gpu, storage in cloud, i am all for it....


Staying relevant in photographic terms may mean changing everything to top end mobile phone standards and doing stuff with software to simulate "traditional" photographic images until things get to the point where people no longer care whether what they are looking at is a "real image" or cgi.

Once printed media is a distant memory and all marketing is undertaken via social media why would anything else be necessary - or relevant?
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Re: v20 with eGPU?

Postby PSS » Sun Dec 29, 2019 10:59 pm

Staying relevant in photographic terms may mean changing everything to top end mobile phone standards and doing stuff with software to simulate "traditional" photographic images until things get to the point where people no longer care whether what they are looking at is a "real image" or cgi.

Once printed media is a distant memory and all marketing is undertaken via social media why would anything else be necessary - or relevant?[/quote]

That seems like a philosophical question...
I could not care less how the image is taken or created, it’s all tools...and the more they get out of the way, the better...
personally I would love to use the smallest, lightest capture device possible and the most portable, inconspicuous machine to organize and manipulate the images...all with the highest possible quality of course...
If that happens to be a pair of glasses and some foldable slab with voice commands (that actually work and seem natural to me)....ok with me....
Until then I will try to make my life as easy as possible and deliver the best IQ in the least amount of time
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