Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

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Re: Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

Postby SFA » Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:40 pm

NN245802UL wrote:Well this is not a solution at all.
When importing I put a Sytle with the parameters at a starting point.
Then I make the adjustements individual for every variant (some time copying from another if in the same serie,
Then I appply styles by creating a new layer with a style.


Sorry, I do not understand what you are doing with the workflow you have described.
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Re: Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

Postby Transformational Eye » Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:12 pm

Sorry i was away. I see i'm not the only one. im using 2017 macbook pro 13. it is updated to Mojave latest ( dont need the bugs of the new osx version yet)
the project updated to CO20 and i also tried to create a new style on the new version. the whole purpose of CO for me is to quickly apply my style to hundreds of photos. I still keep the old ver CO12 so i have to work there for now.

When i reset a photo and make the first copy from a photo with style on it(even if i make changes after so its not the original style, it works. After i make another change in the first style embedded photo and try to apply it on the other it doesn't in some of the variants like temperature and curves.
also when i change a style to a photo and copy it to a different one it doesn't replace the old style but add a new one. i feel like some actions are random and not sure if it persistent. I tried my best to explain, let's hear others.

In the example image i try to copy the details from photo with extreme changes and it doesnt paste it on the next.
https://i.imgur.com/0hubNyX.jpg
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Re: Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

Postby MDG » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:53 am

Hello just here to let you know I'm experiencing the same problems since upgrading to C20.
MacOS 10.14.6 (mojave) on Mac Pro (2013)
Capture One 20 Pro build 13.0.1.19
Hoping this issue gets resolved.
Thank You
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Re: Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

Postby SFA » Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:09 pm

Right, if I understand things correctly you have some images that have been edited by applying a style for some tools, perhaps manual adjustments for others ad then some further adjustments to some of the values set by the style.

Is that correct so far?

Are these changes on the "Background" or in additional layers? Or both?

Now you make further changes to one of the images, possibly including changes to the style?

Are these changes on the "Background" or in additional layers? Or both?

Next you copy these changes from the newly modifies image AND the reference to the style applied (which style may also have been changed?) to the existing images that themselves have already been edits, with the Style applied (although the values for the style setting may have been changed by further edits.)

So you tell C1 to apply you changes and the style. But you have already edited some of the values set by the style in the image you are copying from. And the images you are copying TO already has the Style's settings applied and some other adjustments.

So which changes do you want C1 to copy over and are there any tool settings that should NOT be changed?

When you have instructed the copy to apply a style BUT have previously changed values that the Style would set in both the Copy From inage and the Copy To image - what should happen?

In the case that the Style has a value set for a field that has no change applied according to the copied data in the clipboard, should the Style apply its change?

Have you considered the option of copy the settings for the most recently edited variant image to a NEW variant of the other images? That would avoid the confusion of the existing edits and may be better in a controlled environment - like product photography in a studio. It may not be so usable in other situations.

My current understanding is that, so far as I have seen, when a style is applied as part of a copy if any fields for which the style had adjustments defined are already non-zero (i.e. not default values) they will not be changed. If they are zero values (i.e. default values) and the Style defined something non-zero, the value from the style will be applied.

If you are using LAYERS the functionality has changed between V12 and V20. Using V12 existing layers would be replaced. Using V20 any copied layers are ADDED so that both the existing and the new layers are available.

The only thing I can really suggest that I feel would be useful to you is that you go through your process with the Adjustments Clipboard tool open so that you can see what C1 is selecting when you copy from the source file and can then make some observations about the change applied when you apply the tick marked changes to the target file. Perhaps do that one tool at a time?


HTH.


Grant
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Re: Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

Postby Mark492 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:15 pm

Exactly the same problem. It makes C1 almost unusable, I copy and paste adjustments between images all the time. Now each time I do this, I have to reset the adjustments first! :evil:
Last edited by Mark492 on Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

Postby SFA » Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:46 pm

Mark492 wrote:Exactly the same problem. It makes C1 almost unusable, I copy and paste adjustments between images all the time. Now each time I do this, I have to rest the adjustments first! :evil:


Sorry, what do you mean "rest" the adjustments?
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Re: Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

Postby Mark492 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:10 pm

SFA wrote:
Mark492 wrote:Exactly the same problem. It makes C1 almost unusable, I copy and paste adjustments between images all the time. Now each time I do this, I have to rest the adjustments first! :evil:


Sorry, what do you mean "rest" the adjustments?



*reset. Sorry, changed it now. If you reset them to the flat image, all the adjustments copy across correctly. But you have to do this every single time.
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Re: Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

Postby SFA » Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:18 pm

OK.

What are you dealing with in terms of adjustments? Which tools? Do they all give the problem.

Are you working with Layers?

Are you working with Styles?

Are you working with Styles in layers?

How have you got the Adjustments Clipboard options set?

Do you always want to totally overwrite all existing edits?

Would using a variant for the image (i.e. create a NEW image variant) be a viable option for you? (Especially if done in a batch?)


Grant
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Re: Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

Postby Mark492 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:47 pm

I think it’s to do with styles from a previous version. Similar to the issues others have had. Never been a problem in any other version, but I’ll have to go back to 11 until it’s fixed. I don’t have time for workarounds.
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Re: Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

Postby SFA » Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:10 pm

Mark492 wrote:I think it’s to do with styles from a previous version. Similar to the issues others have had. Never been a problem in any other version, but I’ll have to go back to 11 until it’s fixed. I don’t have time for workarounds.


Could be the Styles.

I can't recall if the embedded styles and any purchased options were re-issued for V12 compatibility to take into account certain tool enhancements.

For V20 the the processing engine has changed and some aspects of certain style may not work as expected because the parameters or ranges are different.

That said there are also some differences with the way layers are now copied over because existing layers are now retained by default (user requested change apparently) whereas previously they were replaced.

In that context Styles applied will not change copy any non-zero adjustment values as they are BUT, if the copied value for an adjustment is 0 yet the associated style has a non-zero value for that adjustment the Style's value will be applied.

If you are batch processing these copied adjustments you might find that my suggested workaround is actually a solution that saves you a lot of time. I can't be sure of that without a better understanding of your favoured work flow.


HTH.

Grant
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Re: Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

Postby Mark492 » Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:46 pm

It depends what I’m doing. Would I be better off creating a new style in 20 and applying that I wonder? I’ll try it tomorrow.

My usual workflow is to apply a base style to every shot on import - curve tweak, sharpen, noise reduction - then start with the first shot, and adjust white balance etc. Then I copy the adjustments from that one and apply it to the next few that would usually be of a similar subject. Then I do the same with the next lot of shots. For example, there may be a bunch of shots of people in a boardroom - those would all have basically the same treatment. Then the next images from the same shoot could be the exterior of the office - so that bunch would have a different treatment. Does that make sense?
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Re: Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

Postby SFA » Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:19 pm

Mark492 wrote:It depends what I’m doing. Would I be better off creating a new style in 20 and applying that I wonder? I’ll try it tomorrow.

My usual workflow is to apply a base style to every shot on import - curve tweak, sharpen, noise reduction - then start with the first shot, and adjust white balance etc. Then I copy the adjustments from that one and apply it to the next few that would usually be of a similar subject. Then I do the same with the next lot of shots. For example, there may be a bunch of shots of people in a boardroom - those would all have basically the same treatment. Then the next images from the same shoot could be the exterior of the office - so that bunch would have a different treatment. Does that make sense?


That makes sense.

Pretty much the way I work too.

The only style/preset I use all the time is on session import where I slightly tweak the sharpening settings. Otherwise my use of styles in generally infrequent and then often just experimental.

It's a historic thing and I probably should reconsider but it still seems to work OK for my usual needs as a default.

If I end up changing things anyway it doesn't really matter what the settings are at that point. You probably have more groups that you can batch process than I do based on the type of subject you mention. I shoot a lot of outdoor action stuff - not much one can do to control the light or the position of the subjects at the "critical" moment.

With V20 and the copying of layers I may well need to re-think some things but mainly when I'm revisiting older sessions for testing and finding a different way to process images with pre-existing layers. That said, if doing that I would probably want to compare results, in which case I would likely create a variant anyway so I can look at old and new side by side.

NR is quite heavily modified. So maybe worth revisiting any styles that use it.

If you are working on older images processed before V20 check which processing engine is active for the image variant.

WB has some changes for selection but I can't think of anything specifically that suggests the application of the set values has changed.

If you are going to investigate tomorrow take a look at my longer posts above. Hopefully they will provide some ideas of things to look for specifically and give you a starting point for your own checks. I would be delighted if you can either confirm what I have suggested or discover that I am wrong!

Every time a little more (or a lot more) functionality is added there is potential for a hike in complexity and in this case a response to user requests related to copying and pasting layers that may have delighted some but has truly annoyed others!

It's all compounded somewhat when working with layers and I do wonder about working with styles in layers in that context - especially how logic could be applied when, perhaps completely unrecognised by the user, the options for the use of logic may be compromised. Perhaps even illogical.

The big change for styles in layers is that before V20 copying in layers meant that any existing layers were removed. Now they are retained and the new layers added. That may not be ideal in many cases but as an example of added and possibly unwanted complexity - but who is to know?


Grant
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Re: Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

Postby Mark492 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:31 pm

Ok, so I created an entirely new style in C1 20 and it all works fine now. So it's something to do with the older styles I imported. That's a pretty easy workaround, only needs doing the once.
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Re: Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

Postby Mark492 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:57 am

Hmmmm... not quite so easy as I thought. There's a weird one where it only copies the crop if you cut and paste twice. And then you double up all the layers because of the stupid new layer behaviour.
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