color demolition in exported tiff and jpg

Discussions, questions, comments and suggestions regarding Capture One PRO, Capture One PRO For Sony / Fujifilm, Capture One DB and Capture One Express For Sony / For Fujifilm 12.x for Windows

Re: color demolition in exported tiff and jpg

Postby NN103673UL » Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:10 am

Grant you ask us the right thing : Is the use of Hardware Acceleration via a GPU ...important.
I will say : NO - this newer systems (amd+8core-architecture) are very fast also without GPU-use ( less than with OpenCL "on"). the only reason to switch hardware acceleration"off" is this "color demolition" .
I compared C1-12 on this PC with LR6-14 (the last version without this stylish "cloud use") using while I had this gradient-errors without a solution in C1.
LR6-14 was slower - after a while painting (to lighten shadows, to darken pointed lights,set accents... system becomes slower and slower and i had to restart the system after some time - I need long for one picture.
In C1-12 now I can do this in a tenth time incl. colorcorrection at a higher level, believe me.
LR is not so bad in many cases as sometimes told but C1 is very important for me in my image design.
I am painting with light and no longer need PS-CSxx or LR7-xx "clouded" and far away on s.o.'s server.
KaJot
To Christian : read the whole text and you will find this http://www.5zu1.de/pics/c1_export_disco ... hue_01.jpg
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Re: color demolition in exported tiff and jpg

Postby SFA » Thu Oct 03, 2019 12:20 pm

KaJot,

I think Christian was asking for a Support Case to be created with a sample problem file (From the Fuji user?) complete with the edit instructions that were being applied (The EIP file option).

I suspect the problem they are seeing on output is somewhat different to your ARW problem although the root cause may be related.

Your ARW example looks quite specific for a part of the colour range in the image that appears to have been "flattened".

The tool settings in your screen shot suggest that the Levels tool is trying to stretch quite a lot of the lighter tones while the HDR tool is somewhat compressing them again, perhaps.

Are there any other tools on play not shown here?

It would be interesting to see the various versions of the histograms.

Also the output process settings for whatever you have set as the active recipe (maybe NOT set by intention!).

I'm not suggesting that no part of your results are connected to a hardware/firmware/software "glitch" but rather that there may be some component in your adjustments that causes such a glitch to become especially obvious for this image and others like it.

A typical GPU driver problem presents more random visual errors with miss processed areas of the image, lines, pixellation and so on. Spatial errors rather than just colour processing errors. Your example may be a variation on that but possibly linked to the edit values being applied rather than some sort of random looking effect.

If you are happy to share the file and your edits (via a file sharing service) I would be happy to take a look at it to see if I get the same sort of result using my relatively old hardware, low power GPU and Windows 7!

Grant
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Re: color demolition in exported tiff and jpg

Postby NN103673UL » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:41 pm

Hi Grant
A) Three new pic’s – will show more than my bad english ;-)

B) http://www.5zu1.de/pics/OpenCL-prob_01.jpg

http://www.5zu1.de/pics/OpenCL-prob_02.jpg
http://www.5zu1.de/pics/OpenCL-prob_03.jpg
I opened an issue/call/… at the supportline and they told me in a first statement following.
______________________________________________________________________________
Supporter :
Hello!
Thank you for reaching out to us and for your interest in Capture One.
We've encounter a few OpenCL/Rendering issues with the newly released AMD Radeon 5700/5700XT.
I would kindly ask you to try rebuilding the OpenCL kernel by following the guide below, and/or disabling it completely in preferences:
https://www.phaseone.com/en/Search/Arti ... nguageid=1
_____________________________________________________________
My answer

thank you for your fast reply.
First step (...never/never) is working . Deleding "ImageCore-folder"-content also works and was refilled after C1-reopening.
trying "view--sharpening"-marker by zooming the pic shows me continuos green fields. - no OpenCL?
Second step in registry is not possible because I have no intel-based GPU, I have an amd-X5700 based GPU with "amdocl64.dll"....etc. ... [From here go to: Computer\HKEY_Local_Machine\SOFTWARE\Khronos***\OpenCL\Vendors
Right-click on IntelOpenCL64.dll]
***there is no path with name Khronos and no IntelOpenCL64.dll in the whole registry.
so perhaps you can tell me the reg-key for amdocl64...
_________________________________________________________
…and in a second answer I told them that it is not working!
And now I should send a arw-file.
____________________________________________________________
And indeed kernel / OpenCL was rebuilted and NOT working for the first 5min.
After rebuilting the effect was shown again.
Histogramm :
The histogramm is moving, you may look at picture 2

I also have used a log-file to show the use oft he GPU and indeed harware acceleration with OpenCL is working (pic 3)
but the results are as described.

Components/services/....
there may be some component in your adjustments“ : mybe a service ? driver ? ( i used first amd-driver for RX-5700, 23.Sept.2019, later on newest from 30.Sept.2019 ( interesting ! only one!! week later : all have problems with the new hardware, believe me) but no difference in picture-results.

„using my relatively old hardware, low power GPU and Windows 7“ : hmm Grant, I tried it on my „old“ laptop from 2015 with WIN8.1 and a GeForce GTX860M : NO!!! problem. Results are fine.
So I come back to the first sentence of the supporter : We've encounter a few OpenCL/Rendering issues with the newly released AMD Radeon 5700/5700XT.
I will inform you after sending a file to the support – and I will search in my WIN10 if there are a negativ effect by switching off services etc…
Thx to Grant and as I told, I will inform you
KaJot
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Re: color demolition in exported tiff and jpg

Postby Bobtographer » Sat Oct 05, 2019 3:21 am

AMD should be aware of the problem now also
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Re: color demolition in exported tiff and jpg

Postby NNN635636448355960533 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:05 am

Is the use of Hardware Acceleration via a GPU, as opposed to simply processing without the GPU and maybe losing a little speed, a critical part of your general assessment?

For your Fuji camera you can of course continue to use the Fuji Express version for assessment, albeit with some limitations for available functionality.



I've noticed that without hardware acceleration editing is visibly slower, i.e.: a lag when making selections, moving sliders, etc, is somewhat distracting. Having said that, export function with no OpenCL is almost as quick as with it. ATM I'm using Express to do basic adjustments and export while further editing is done in other software.
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Re: color demolition in exported tiff and jpg

Postby NNN635636448355960533 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:46 am

Just downloaded and installed latest driver for the GPU, rebuilt kernels and tested export. Unfortunately the issue is still present. I can confirm that the only adjustment (in Express) that is causing undesired artifacts in the exported image is HDR adjustment. If HDR is left untouched, exported image does not exhibit any problems.
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Re: color demolition in exported tiff and jpg

Postby NNN635636448355960533 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:58 am

Christian Gruner wrote:Is it a Color shift you see, or false color/artifacts appearing?


Please post screenshots and provide the raw-file including adjustments (I.e. in a .eip file)



Hi Christian
Not sure if you wanted my screenshots? If you did then I'd attached two to my support case 343378. Let me know if you require more info. From my testing it appears that the HDR adjustments, either highlights or shadows are the only ones that trigger fake colour and artifacts. I've never observed any problems of the kind when all other adjustments were used.
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Re: color demolition in exported tiff and jpg

Postby Bobtographer » Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:03 am

can you supply one of the RAW files to Download?
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Re: color demolition in exported tiff and jpg

Postby NNN635636448355960533 » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:11 am

Bobtographer wrote:can you supply one of the RAW files to Download?

Try to download this one:
http://ksnausphoto.com/books/_DSF6613.RAF
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Re: color demolition in exported tiff and jpg

Postby SFA » Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:33 pm

NNN635636448355960533 wrote:
Bobtographer wrote:can you supply one of the RAW files to Download?

Try to download this one:
http://ksnausphoto.com/books/_DSF6613.RAF


I'm not sure what I should be looking for with this image but the only things I can see that might not be as expected are what look like a few hot pixels. So far as I have assessed they are always there and do not change. They require Spot removal actions to eliminate them - single pixel adjustments don't seem to work.

That may be something to do with being a RAF file -I'm not sure as I don't have a Fuji camera so I'm not up to date with any background technical information.

That said they could also be just dust fragments brightly lit by the flash. The dark clothing and background combined with the resolution of the image readily show up even the smallest details in that respect.

I have tried a few different settings with some extreme HDR adjustments included and none of them produce unexpected results of an appearance that is significantly different in any way from the on-screen presentation.

This is with C12.1.1 currently running on WIn 7 with an ancient and low power NVidia Quadro GPU.

HTH.


Grant
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Re: color demolition in exported tiff and jpg

Postby Bobtographer » Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:39 pm

NNN635636448355960533 wrote:
Bobtographer wrote:can you supply one of the RAW files to Download?

Try to download this one:
http://ksnausphoto.com/books/_DSF6613.RAF

What happens when you use the HDR on this shot? Would have been best to upload the same RAW as you were showing in the JPGs
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Re: color demolition in exported tiff and jpg

Postby SFA » Wed Oct 09, 2019 12:49 pm

Bobtographer wrote:
NNN635636448355960533 wrote:
Bobtographer wrote:can you supply one of the RAW files to Download?

Try to download this one:
http://ksnausphoto.com/books/_DSF6613.RAF

What happens when you use the HDR on this shot? Would have been best to upload the same RAW as you were showing in the JPGs


We have not seen the images from this poster as my understanding is that they were provided as part of a Support Case not posted somewhere visible to the forum.

So I don't know what we should be looking for but in any case I'm not seeing any problems related to HDR tool usage on my system configuration.

Obviously that's not much help to the poster but does suggest the problem is not generic for C1.


Grant
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Re: color demolition in exported tiff and jpg

Postby NN103673UL » Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:56 pm

hello again
first . please read this first - yes I know it is very long and longer text is not read . NN103673UL » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:41 pm

second : some answers
I use Sony with arw.files and I am the one opening this here
And as it seems it is not only a „Sony-problem“ – thats good – look at the end of the text
answer to
NNN635636448355960533

"I've noticed that without hardware acceleration editing is visibly slower....."
Answer : No, not slower, not at my Computer ( using RX5700 + >> PCIe4-M.2-ssd-hard disks + DDR4-3000, CL15-17-17-35 ) There is „only“ the color-shift/solarization of colors as described with OpenCL "on". Question : PCIe3?-grapic? what system do you use?
use the newest driver
I tried driver from 23.09.2019 ; 30.09.2019 and now 04.10.2019 no difference

answer to
Bobtographer RAW-file :

I sent one to the support
And as I told, I will inform you about the results.
For the moment the supporter told me that he will submit a bug report to the development team
Kajot
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Re: color demolition in exported tiff and jpg

Postby NNN635636448355960533 » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:54 am

Just to clarify a bit as this discussion becomes a bit "confused".

Firstly: someone requested an example of a raw file which upon export to jpeg might be showing artifacts. I provided that however, this issue is not related to just raw files. So, the discussion about the raw file is pointless.

Secondly: my hardware has been specified in my original post to this forum. Please look it up.

Thirdly: the issue has been narrowed down to particular OpenCL implementation as it comes with GPU AMD Radeon 5700 series. And this is "end of", at least for me.
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