All my edits are gone. Thousands of pictures gone unedited.

Discussions, questions, comments and suggestions regarding Capture One PRO, Capture One PRO For Sony / Fujifilm, Capture One DB and Capture One Express For Sony / For Fujifilm 12.x for Windows

All my edits are gone. Thousands of pictures gone unedited.

Postby NNN636404120592017559 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:30 pm

Hi everybody.

I upgraded to capture one 12.0 a few months ago.
I recently added a bunch of pictures and edited those.

Once I was done with them, I had to archive them in specific folder locations and I started seeing the older pictures without any edit.
After going through each folder it looks like all the pictures I had edited before have lost all the edit changes previously done.
Funny enough the smart collections show a "missing" version of the image with all the edits, but I don't see those in the actual folders.

Now I am really not sure what to do, I just figured out, by reading a few posts of people that had similar issues, that the catalog holds the edits and they are not saved as files per image as it happens with sessions.
Sessions don't make any sense for the kind of work I do, I only need a reliable catalog with all my images.

I opened the backup catalog made at the time of the upgrade and all my edits are there, but since I upgraded I changed a lot of folders and added a lot of pictures.

With the latest 12.1.xx version, to which I updated today, it seems that I can upgrade the old catalog to the new version without losing the edits, but this means I will lose all the work done since I updated to 12.0; plus I will have to go folder by folder and update the directory structure (Add Folder...)

This is really pushing me to go back to Lightroom.
It has surely never happened in Lightroom in the many years I used it before switching to Capture One.
It seems this was related to a bug, which really baffles me because this is not something that should go unnoticed.
This is already costing me a lot of time and I am really not happy that something like this hasn't been tested properly.
I am a professional, as many on this forum, and I can't risk things like these to happen.

Is there any way to at least export the edits and import them in the new catalog?
I will lose the folder structure, but at least I can retain the edits.

What do you guys think is the best course of action right now?
Please advise.

G. Improta
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Re: All my edits are gone. Thousands of pictures gone unedit

Postby IanS » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:03 pm

NNN636404120592017559 wrote:Hi everybody.

I upgraded to capture one 12.0 a few months ago.
I recently added a bunch of pictures and edited those.

Once I was done with them, I had to archive them in specific folder locations and I started seeing the older pictures without any edit.
After going through each folder it looks like all the pictures I had edited before have lost all the edit changes previously done.
Funny enough the smart collections show a "missing" version of the image with all the edits, but I don't see those in the actual folders.

Now I am really not sure what to do, I just figured out, by reading a few posts of people that had similar issues, that the catalog holds the edits and they are not saved as files per image as it happens with sessions.
Sessions don't make any sense for the kind of work I do, I only need a reliable catalog with all my images.

I opened the backup catalog made at the time of the upgrade and all my edits are there, but since I upgraded I changed a lot of folders and added a lot of pictures.

With the latest 12.1.xx version, to which I updated today, it seems that I can upgrade the old catalog to the new version without losing the edits, but this means I will lose all the work done since I updated to 12.0; plus I will have to go folder by folder and update the directory structure (Add Folder...)

This is really pushing me to go back to Lightroom.
It has surely never happened in Lightroom in the many years I used it before switching to Capture One.
It seems this was related to a bug, which really baffles me because this is not something that should go unnoticed.
This is already costing me a lot of time and I am really not happy that something like this hasn't been tested properly.
I am a professional, as many on this forum, and I can't risk things like these to happen.

Is there any way to at least export the edits and import them in the new catalog?
I will lose the folder structure, but at least I can retain the edits.

What do you guys think is the best course of action right now?
Please advise.

G. Improta


Your post is a little hard to follow so please bear with me.

You say that you archived the images, does this mean that you moved the images using Windows File Explorer or from within C1Pro?

The catalogue does record the edits in the same way as LR.

When you are looking at the images and saying that they are unedited is that from within C1Pro or in an image viewer?

If you can answer these questions it would help to understand your issues.

Ian
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Re: All my edits are gone. Thousands of pictures gone unedit

Postby SFA » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:04 pm

"Once I was done with them, I had to archive them in specific folder locations "

What does this mean and how did you do it?
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Re: All my edits are gone. Thousands of pictures gone unedit

Postby NNN636404120592017559 » Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:35 pm

My apologies for the confusion.

When I say I had to "archive" the images, I simply mean I had to move them into specific folders.
I have a WIP folder organized by date. Once the pictures are developed I move them in other folders (bears, or landscape etc).

That was just to say that I was moving the images in the appropriate folders after editing them, and I noticed all the older edits were gone.

IanS wrote:
The catalogue does record the edits in the same way as LR.



Not exactly.
In Lightroom, there is an option to save XMP files externally together with the catalog so that, if something like that happens, the images have their own edits.

Thanks,
G.
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Re: All my edits are gone. Thousands of pictures gone unedit

Postby SFA » Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:25 pm

NNN636404120592017559 wrote:My apologies for the confusion.

When I say I had to "archive" the images, I simply mean I had to move them into specific folders.
I have a WIP folder organized by date. Once the pictures are developed I move them in other folders (bears, or landscape etc).

That was just to say that I was moving the images in the appropriate folders after editing them, and I noticed all the older edits were gone.

IanS wrote:
The catalogue does record the edits in the same way as LR.



Not exactly.
In Lightroom, there is an option to save XMP files externally together with the catalog so that, if something like that happens, the images have their own edits.

Thanks,
G.


I you move the images within the C1 functionality the Catalog database shoudl maintain the links to the images.

If you move the files by some other route you will need to use the "Locate" functionality to tell C1 where you have put them.

In the Pro version you could use Sessions and that functionality has a structure that includes sub-folders that contain the edit instruction information and other things. However if you move images original images outside of C1 you would need to remember where the images are (or make them "favourite" folders in the session AND remember to move the associated sub-folders and the relevant contents. Once again, if you move things within C1 using the features provided the moves will be fully coordinated and the Session database will be updated accordingly.

In terms of XMP files containing Edits that is much as you describe for LR but with the Express version of C1 you have catalogs which contain the edit files although the file can be referenced anywhere you wish to save it even if it is not always available. Using C1 to move things just mean you have less admin later.

HTH.


Grant
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Re: All my edits are gone. Thousands of pictures gone unedit

Postby NNN636404120592017559 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:24 am

Thanks for your reply.

The "moving" part of the post is not the issue. I always move from inside Capture One Pro and, even if at times I have to add and folders and or rename stuff manually because the links break, it mostly works.

The issue was caused by upgrading to Capture One 12.0. At that point, I lost all the pictures edits. The new pictures worked fine.
The problem is that I only figured that out months later.
If I upgrade from the previous catalog (backed up when I updated to v12.0 months ago), using the new 12.1.x version, the old edits work, but I will lose everything I have done from that catalog on.

As for now, I have installed Lightroom again and I will probably stick to it if we can't find a solution.
I really like Capture One editing features a lot more, but the catalog part is not reliable and stable enough, and I can't have these issues.
This is a major fail for me and is costing me money.
On top of that, it seems that whatever decision I take means re-doing a lot of work.

G.
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Re: All my edits are gone. Thousands of pictures gone unedit

Postby SFA » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:13 am

NNN636404120592017559 wrote:Thanks for your reply.

The "moving" part of the post is not the issue. I always move from inside Capture One Pro and, even if at times I have to add and folders and or rename stuff manually because the links break, it mostly works.

The issue was caused by upgrading to Capture One 12.0. At that point, I lost all the pictures edits. The new pictures worked fine.
The problem is that I only figured that out months later.
If I upgrade from the previous catalog (backed up when I updated to v12.0 months ago), using the new 12.1.x version, the old edits work, but I will lose everything I have done from that catalog on.

As for now, I have installed Lightroom again and I will probably stick to it if we can't find a solution.
I really like Capture One editing features a lot more, but the catalog part is not reliable and stable enough, and I can't have these issues.
This is a major fail for me and is costing me money.
On top of that, it seems that whatever decision I take means re-doing a lot of work.

G.


Ah. Ok. So the moving folders information was not the basis of the problem.

C1 keeps a copy of any catalogs it updates as part of an upgrade so if you have lost work from earlier releases if should be possible to recover then so long as the backup has not been discarded.

Then maybe take a little time to merge the older work with the more recent work by treating them as 2 (or more) different catalogs and then combining them anew.

Meantime I would suggest that you create a Support Case with the Phase Support Team (if you have not already done so) and obtain some direct assistance from them to assess the best course of action and the options available to you.


HTH.


Grant
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Re: All my edits are gone. Thousands of pictures gone unedit

Postby NNN636404120592017559 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 4:44 pm

Thanks, Grant,

Merging the old work with the new will take a lot of time. Quite a few things have changed.
I will just deal with it.


Thanks,
G.
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Re: All my edits are gone. Thousands of pictures gone unedit

Postby SFA » Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:41 pm

NNN636404120592017559 wrote:Thanks, Grant,

Merging the old work with the new will take a lot of time. Quite a few things have changed.
I will just deal with it.


Thanks,
G.


In theory this could be handled quite easily but the devil will be in the detail so perhaps a generic set of guidelines may not help much.

On the other hand if there is no need to undertake a mass merge at this time, don't. Simply salvaging the V9 catalogue and making sure it will not be accidentally discarded may suffice for now?


Grant
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Re: All my edits are gone. Thousands of pictures gone unedit

Postby NNN636404120592017559 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 1:04 am

I wish it was that simple.

Between when I upgraded and when I figured out the edits were lost quite some time passed. During this time I didn't add just pictures but also modified the folder structure quite a bit according to new criteria.
This makes the old catalog not that useful, even if it has the correct edits, it can't find the correct folders.
The new catalog only has the new edits and plus is also missing a few images that it thinks are already in the catalog but don't show up; another common issue as far as I have read around here.
What a mess.

I was away for an assignment for a couple of months and I didn't use Capture One after the upgrade for a while. I kept working normally afterward and didn't think to run into this situation.

I just want to say that I believe Capture One Pro is a fantastic piece of software. The editing part is flawless and nothing gets close. I opened Lightroom for a bit and felt really bad about thinking of going back.
But we need catalogs that are more reliable, can't have missing files after a rename or after having moved a folder or software upgrades that loose edits.

In any case, thanks for your help guys.

G.
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Re: All my edits are gone. Thousands of pictures gone unedit

Postby NNN636404120592017559 » Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:30 am

I thought to make a new post but is redundant so I will just update this one.

After losing all the edits I moved on.
I thought I will simply edit again the pictures I needed.
For my commercial prints, I have separate files so that's safe.

Now, after editing about 500 new pictures in the last couple of days, this morning I open Capture (Pro) and in two separate folders, they show as offline.
A few sub-folders that I created from inside Capture One (seemingly successfully), and into which I moved some photographs, are not in the catalog anymore. I have to "add folder" them manually. One by one, because we can't add folders recursively.
In two different folders all the pictures where showing as offline.

In these folders, there were groups of pictures, a few bursts. I edited one and copied-pasted the settings onto the others. All the ones the had the settings pasted onto (a lot of them), were offline.

Of course, nothing had changed from last time I closed Capture One, same location and the disk is internal.
I had to Sync the folder and this brought in all the pictures again, except I lost all the edits previously done.


To be very honest, I am very frustrated.
I have to deal with thousands of pictures every day and this catalog is simply not robust enough.

I am sorry to say, but I have canceled my auto-renewal that expires in 1 month and I am probably not renewing.

It feels to me that Capture One, even if is a great piece of software for raw editing, is not meant to keep track of many
pictures at the time especially when one has a directory-based approach on top of the tagging approach.

I am really sad to have to go back to Lightroom and I am gonna miss the fantastic editing tools of Capture Pro, but as professional I need reliability before features and I have to work on my pictures on a daily bases, not play catch with missing files and folders.

G. Improta
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Re: All my edits are gone. Thousands of pictures gone unedit

Postby IanL » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:46 pm

Yuck. C1 should be able to handle editing like you are doing. What did support say when you reported your problems?
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Re: All my edits are gone. Thousands of pictures gone unedit

Postby NNN636404120592017559 » Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:22 am

The first issue was a bug that showed after the upgrade to v12. It was recently fixed with the 12.something version. Unfortunately, the damage happened already and I didn't quite notice early enough, so I was already screwed irreversibly.

As for the folder and the naming and missing files etc. Well, that's an ongoing problem. I have read a lot of posts with this kind of issues.
To me, has happened one too many times, and I moved on (or back), to Lightroom again.

The catalog is not robust for OS operations, like renaming and moving folders around. I need reliability, can't keep searching for missing stuff. Also some tools in this sense ar archaic, like not being able to add folders recursively or seeing all the pictures inside a location recursively.

The editing part of capture one pro is the best out there. The interface as well. I loved it, really. I am not just a photographer, I worked for almost 20 years in the VFX industry and developed tools for the most complex 3d software in the world. I can use a software and I think I can recognize when something works and something doesn't.

Too bad. I am hoping the developers focus on these issues because for a professional is really frustrating wasting time (=money) this way.

G.
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Re: All my edits are gone. Thousands of pictures gone unedit

Postby NNN637062410260422947 » Sat Oct 12, 2019 12:11 pm

Okay, and that happened in mid September you said?
That would explain why I had issues with my first batch of edits back when I started working with Capture One... I thought I was just a newbie that messed up something :lol:
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Re: All my edits are gone. Thousands of pictures gone unedit

Postby NNN636818585512125982 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:29 am

Seems to me that all of this would have been easily fixed if C1 had a simple one click batch search function that could search all folders globally and locate and re-associate any missing files. As long as you did not change the original filename, this would automatically re-associate ALL missing files in the catalog and restore edits without further user intervention. I do all my re-organizing within C1 but I fear the day when something goes wrong and like the OP, I don't notice it until much later. A single misplaced file is one thing, but thousands is quite another.

Paul
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