Problem exporting images as catalog.

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Problem exporting images as catalog.

Postby Skids » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:00 am

Hi,

My copy of Capture One (C1) is configured with the catalog stored on the computer's internal SSD and the images that the catalog refers to stored on an external USB3 4TB drive.

I have had problems with corrupt catalog files and reported these in other posts. However, I now have a catalog file that is working and passes verification. This file refers to just under 80,000 images.

In an attempt to establish how image count effects database speed I have been attempting to create a number of smaller catalogs. I am doing this by creating an Album of the images and right clicking on the Album and selecting the "Export as catalog..." option.

Initially I proved the process using Albums of only a few images, first tens, then hundreds and then four thousand. These exports worked and created new Albums. My first observation is why is the export so slow? The export of four thousand records (not images) took two hours.

The real problem occurs when I try and export an (static) Album created from a search for two keywords which contains 19,418 images. The export runs but does not stop at 19,418 images. As yet I have not allowed it to complete as it takes so long and at first I suspected finger trouble on my part.

As an example I restarted the export, of 19,418 images, at 22:00 yesterday. It is now 08:54 and the export counter is passing 45,179 and reporting that the export will finish is seven hours time i.e. 16:00 today meaning that the export will have taken eighteen hours.

I wonder if anyone else has seem similar performance or rather lack of performance?

Simon
Skids
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:38 pm

Re: Problem exporting images as catalog.

Postby Skids » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:22 am

I though a comparison may be of interest.

Adobe Lightroom version 6.14, catalog of 84,000 images. The catalog stored on internal SSD and the images stored on external USB3 drive i.e. the same configuration as C1 described above.

Plus this timing test was run with Capture One still running the export described above with C1 hogging resources and with cooling fans running.

LR export of smart folder to new catalog. Time to create new catalog 1 minute 50 seconds.

As an aside the C1 export has frozen at 47,285 images, possibly because of the export from LR but who knows?

Simon
Skids
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:38 pm

Re: Problem exporting images as catalog.

Postby Eric Nepean » Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:40 am

I agree that Capture One is slow at handling larger catalogs.

I think that this comes from Capture Ones history that it first started as an application to handle sessions, which handled a few thousand images at most.

Then the catalog feature was added, and even in Capture One 7 or 8 it was slow and bit unstable. I have had comments from veteran users (in previous releases) that they wouldn't use a Catalog, they would stick with Sessions.

Some photographers live off of session based work, they don't even want a catalog that combines work from different clients.
I believe that Commercial photogs have been Capture One's bread and butter customers since their beginning, and I see this focus reflected in the way they prioritise features.

For a while (perhaps still) I think that Capture Ones view of the world is that users do culling sorting and editting in Sessions, and then import the selects into a Catalog; this results in smaller catalogs.

What I have seen is a slow improvement in Capture One performance (speed and stability) for large catalogs, but as you say, Capture One's speed does not match Lightroom (or Aperture, or PhotoMechanic) for large catalogs. And the handling of large catalogs is frustrating.

If I were to make a large export as a catalog, I would instead follow this proceedure which is faster:
  • Duplicate the catalog and assign the new catalog name
  • Assign a color code to all the variants in the user collections to be kept.
  • Move the user collections to be kept to a separate Group
  • In All Images select all variants without the color code and and remove their images from the catalog
  • Remove the special color code from the remaining variants.
  • Remove all the User Collections outside the Group to be kept
  • Move the remaining collections outside the Group.
Capture One should be designed well enough to make this routine unnecessary for a user (perhaps it can even follow the same proceedure) but that's the situation for now.
Eric Nepean
 
Posts: 615
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:02 am
Location: Ottawa

Re: Problem exporting images as catalog.

Postby Skids » Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:02 am

Dear Eric,

Thanks again for a very detailed response and export instructions. I will try to follow them but I'm not sure they will help as I now suspect that the catalog file may be the source of the problems. It passes verification and I did manage to get the export of 20,000 records to complete yesterday. Clutching at straws I closed all other applications, deleted all my startup items and switched the WiFi off before starting the export. The export completed in an hour and twenty minutes.

Next I decided to export the complete collection to a new catalog . I thought this would take five or six hours so I left it running over night. It failed crashing the computer by using all available memory (16GB).

My impression is that the cataloging system is not fit for purpose; its just to fragile. I have raised support requests and sent log files and am waiting for a reply.

I think my next option is to reimport all my images directly from the camera image files. This is likely to take hours. If this does not cure so of the issues then I will be asking for a refund.

One question : does your instance of Capture One automatically create preview files or do you have to use the menu "regenerate previews" ? My copy does not automatically generate them.

best wishes
Simon
Skids
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:38 pm

Re: Problem exporting images as catalog.

Postby Eric Nepean » Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:19 pm

At proceedure I used back when Capture One was giving me more trouble (back in the days of Capture One 9 and 10) was to import in chunks of about 5000 images.

One thing I do now is to set Capture One to back up the catalog every time I close the catalog. If I ever think I might have a corrupted catalog database (e.g. due to a crash), I go back to the previous backup. I haven't had to do that this year, however it's good precaution.

If you haven't started backing up catalogs regularly, now is a good time.

You could also restore your possibly corrupted catalog to the time before the first crash, if you have the backup.

You can also extract the previous catalog from Time Machine, if you are using that. I find it very handy, but usually use it for lost emails or accidently deleted image files.

My Capture One starts generating previews after imports, but what it doesn't always do is bring up the activity window that shows you that it is generating previews

Another point of note is that I find that almost everything goes faster and more smoothly if I use small previews, around 1024 size. They load faster, create faster and take up less space than the larger previews. And I don't see any degradation in quality.

To summarize
  • Set Catalog Backup to Remind on Close Always
  • Use Time Machine to Backup Image Files
  • Revert to catalog backup after a crash
  • Preview size to about 1024
Eric Nepean
 
Posts: 615
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:02 am
Location: Ottawa


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