Are you serious about update price politic??

Discussions, questions, comments and suggestions regarding Capture One PRO, Capture One PRO For Sony / Fujifilm, Capture One DB and Capture One Express For Sony / For Fujifilm 12.x for Mac

Re: Are you serious about update price politic??

Postby pvonk » Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:37 am

I agree with you Emile. And if you've taken a business course, one of the first things you learn are the price vs demand curves. I don't know what they are for C1, and I doubt others here know either. Plus there's the other variable of developer costs. I'm sure C1 has smaller demand compared to Adobe. They probably have fewer coders. Makes the equation tighter for them. For all I know, this may be a money loser for them.
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Re: Are you serious about update price politic??

Postby PSS » Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:43 am

Emile wrote:
ShaneB wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again: if Phase One dropped the price of capture One by say a third, they'd make more money.

The cheaper the product, the more people would buy it - and the increased sales would more than compensate for reduced profit per sale.

There are a lot of people out there looking for an alternative to LR. Phase One could scoop up most of them if they'd just get their pricing right.


The question is if they’re interested. I think the “Pro” in “Capture One Pro” is a dead giveaway. I used to be a pro event photographer and frankly if I had to worry about $30 or $50 more for my main software I’d have been a pretty lousy photographer, seeing a single day event grossed *at least* $1000.

For the masses shooting Sony or Fuji, Phase One provides a free version. That’s a pretty good offer that Adobe can’t match.

And if they were to go after Adobe, they’d probably have to triple their support staff. Including office space etc., the cost of that is not trivial. It would completely change their organization and focus. I can totally comprehend it if they’re unwilling to do that. Being a bit of a niche player isn’t that bad.

Lastly, we’re all mostly here because we either think Capture One is a superior product or because we simply dislike Adobe’s business model. That means we’re probably biased. I know many people who don’t share those beliefs and are perfectly happy with Adobe. It might just be that the market of people craving to switch is less vast than we presume it to be.

I really don’t know Phase One's point of view; I understand your reasoning. It’s just that there are other options for them to consider and wether we like it or not, they might even make sense for them. I do hope though that next year we'll be anticipating new features more than dreading new price hikes.

the world is full of people complaining about adobe, but at the end of the day, 10$/month buys PS, a high end C1 competitor in LR as well as an entire cloud/mobile eco system incl portfolio, behance,....and people complain....
so charging (at this point) more or less 10 (or more) /month to keep C1 updated looks a little strange.....
C1 v12 looks good, the improvements are welcome but we all know that we use C1 for the color and raw machine....LR classic has a ton more features and is a far superior DAM, LR CC is clearly the future (and much, much, much leaner and faster then both c1 and LR classic)....
phase used to be a hardware company.....now they are a software company....but times are changing, there are so many options coming out left and right, we might laugh and not consider them serious, but at the end of the day, it eats into R&D and these other people aren't stupid either....
charging more for what now is pretty much superior raw conversion is a a slippery slope.....everybody has to have all this other software, which is doing more and more and better and better....LR does a great job at raw conversion....i happen to prefer C1.....but i never thought i would ever (have to pay) for C1....i got started and my first copies with my first phase back....but we all know how that turned out....
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Re: Are you serious about update price politic??

Postby Emile » Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:42 am

PSS wrote:
Emile wrote:
ShaneB wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again: if Phase One dropped the price of capture One by say a third, they'd make more money.

The cheaper the product, the more people would buy it - and the increased sales would more than compensate for reduced profit per sale.

There are a lot of people out there looking for an alternative to LR. Phase One could scoop up most of them if they'd just get their pricing right.


The question is if they’re interested. I think the “Pro” in “Capture One Pro” is a dead giveaway. I used to be a pro event photographer and frankly if I had to worry about $30 or $50 more for my main software I’d have been a pretty lousy photographer, seeing a single day event grossed *at least* $1000.

For the masses shooting Sony or Fuji, Phase One provides a free version. That’s a pretty good offer that Adobe can’t match.

And if they were to go after Adobe, they’d probably have to triple their support staff. Including office space etc., the cost of that is not trivial. It would completely change their organization and focus. I can totally comprehend it if they’re unwilling to do that. Being a bit of a niche player isn’t that bad.

Lastly, we’re all mostly here because we either think Capture One is a superior product or because we simply dislike Adobe’s business model. That means we’re probably biased. I know many people who don’t share those beliefs and are perfectly happy with Adobe. It might just be that the market of people craving to switch is less vast than we presume it to be.

I really don’t know Phase One's point of view; I understand your reasoning. It’s just that there are other options for them to consider and wether we like it or not, they might even make sense for them. I do hope though that next year we'll be anticipating new features more than dreading new price hikes.

the world is full of people complaining about adobe, but at the end of the day, 10$/month buys PS, a high end C1 competitor in LR as well as an entire cloud/mobile eco system incl portfolio, behance,....and people complain....
so charging (at this point) more or less 10 (or more) /month to keep C1 updated looks a little strange.....
C1 v12 looks good, the improvements are welcome but we all know that we use C1 for the color and raw machine....LR classic has a ton more features and is a far superior DAM, LR CC is clearly the future (and much, much, much leaner and faster then both c1 and LR classic)....
phase used to be a hardware company.....now they are a software company....but times are changing, there are so many options coming out left and right, we might laugh and not consider them serious, but at the end of the day, it eats into R&D and these other people aren't stupid either....
charging more for what now is pretty much superior raw conversion is a a slippery slope.....everybody has to have all this other software, which is doing more and more and better and better....LR does a great job at raw conversion....i happen to prefer C1.....but i never thought i would ever (have to pay) for C1....i got started and my first copies with my first phase back....but we all know how that turned out....


Serious competition for C1 would be great! Thing is, I see most alternatives competing with LR at the relatively lower end, trying to snatch away enthusiasts with pretty good software for a very reasonable price. Why would PhaseOne choose to enter that battle? With all that competition over there, wouldn’t it be far wiser to compete at the high end, snatching away the professional market at a premium price? And again, they’ve got the greatest offer of all: their great engine for free for Sony and Fuji shooters. I hate price hikes as much as everyone else, but I can see the logic of it all.

Anyway. Not my place to defend them so I’ll butt out of this discussion. Just trying to offer a different perspective!
Fujifilm, Mac, Capture One user since v3.0
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Re: Are you serious about update price politic??

Postby picman2 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:46 am

Sadly I have to concur with those complaining about the lack in bug fixes. I told them some time ago that the Levels tool in RGB mode did not show the 3 coloured graphs anymore but only an averaged grey graph and that you could only get the coloured graphs back if you clicked a single color graph and then again clicked the RGB graph. It was acknowledged as a bug by support after I checked several scenarios for them. Has it been fixed? No!
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Re: Are you serious about update price politic??

Postby Mark51 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:43 am

Not saying anything new here, but just adding my 10c worth to the pot... £149 upgrade C1 11 to 12... Absolutely ridiculous. Forget it.

Mind you, given the also ridiculous cost of their camera systems I'm not surprised they're trying to make a little money back on the software. They've just crossed the line for me, personally, though.
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Re: Are you serious about update price politic??

Postby JTalbertPhoto » Sat Dec 01, 2018 4:46 pm

photoGrant wrote:
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv wrote:
pxpik wrote:You'll be surprised what areas of this software will leap frog others in terms of feature release but bugs from ~8/9/10/11/12/13/14/15 will still be prevalent.


Me. I am on the trial, started with trial of CO11 and ran into issues with thumbnail creation. Opened a ticket was told since I am using Mojave, CO11 is not fully compatible with Mojave and there will be bugs.

Later that some day CO12 was released and the same thumbnail bug still exists, and C012 is Mojave compatible.

The reality is, Phase One, is moving towards a subscription model like Adobe and Microsoft and many others. They don't care about customers who want to pay once for an app and thats it.

This is why full price is now $299, its to make paying $180 annually easier to swallow.

Its all about business and finding ways to force your customer to keep paying to keep the revenue coming in.

Its all business and its sad.

This shows Phase One does not care about increasing market share and trying to steal customers from LR.
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Re: Are you serious about update price politic??

Postby thedoctor007 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:59 pm

I guess the question is simple, is there really anyone except PS that is completion for C1? There are Affinity Photo, On1 Raw 2019 and Luminar but are they really competiton?
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Re: Are you serious about update price politic??

Postby Phil121 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:37 pm

Oh get over yourselves!

It's great software, and if you don't care about radial and luminance masking, keep you wallet shut. But for the price of a few prints you get those features, and they're well worth it.
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Re: Are you serious about update price politic??

Postby thedoctor007 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:48 pm

When your on disability every dome counts dont tell me to get over myself I also think its great software but I am being priced out
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Re: Are you serious about update price politic??

Postby ozbusa » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:07 am

On the subject of pricing;

Can anyone tell me the what Perpetual means in the purchase of a Perpetual Licence?

I can't find an explanation anywhere on the Capture One site.
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Re: Are you serious about update price politic??

Postby SFA » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:45 am

ozbusa wrote:On the subject of pricing;

Can anyone tell me the what Perpetual means in the purchase of a Perpetual Licence?

I can't find an explanation anywhere on the Capture One site.


It means that the licence you have for a particular version will continue to work for that version (and those before it should they be of interest) without HAVING to pay more to keep things running as one has to do using the subscription model.

There are advantages to both options depending on one's needs though as I recall Phase considered the introduction of the subscription model to be something that added additional cash flow flexibility for Professional operations as the main objective.

The challenge one has with the perpetual licence are those of Compatibility with:

- your Operating System of choice and what its vendor decides to do;

- your camera(s) and whether future upgrades might compromise the use of older version of the software

- your lenses for much the same reason as for cameras

- that your level of functionality from the available tools my not, long term, give you everything you feel you need.

As far as I know that is all one needs to be concerned about. However if anyone have any points to add or corrections to offer all comments are welcome.


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Re: Are you serious about update price politic??

Postby ozbusa » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:20 am

SFA wrote:
ozbusa wrote:On the subject of pricing;

Can anyone tell me the what Perpetual means in the purchase of a Perpetual Licence?

I can't find an explanation anywhere on the Capture One site.


It means that the licence you have for a particular version will continue to work for that version (and those before it should they be of interest) without HAVING to pay more to keep things running as one has to do using the subscription model.

There are advantages to both options depending on one's needs though as I recall Phase considered the introduction of the subscription model to be something that added additional cash flow flexibility for Professional operations as the main objective.

The challenge one has with the perpetual licence are those of Compatibility with:

- your Operating System of choice and what its vendor decides to do;

- your camera(s) and whether future upgrades might compromise the use of older version of the software

- your lenses for much the same reason as for cameras

- that your level of functionality from the available tools my not, long term, give you everything you feel you need.

As far as I know that is all one needs to be concerned about. However if anyone have any points to add or corrections to offer all comments are welcome.


Grant

Ok Thanks.

My current licence is for Capture One Pro 11 Single user.

My upgrade option is Capture One Pro 12 (excluding the licences with Style Packs).

There is no mention of perpetual.

If I was a new user and wished to purchase Capture One Pro 12, it is called perpetual.

Does this mean my existing licence for 11 and upgrade option to 12 are perpetual licences?
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Re: Are you serious about update price politic??

Postby John Doe » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:35 am

If you don't choose subscription then yes, by default what you purchase is a perpetual license.
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Re: Are you serious about update price politic??

Postby ozbusa » Sun Dec 02, 2018 2:02 am

OK, Got it.

Thanks.
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Re: Are you serious about update price politic??

Postby PhaseoneUser30779 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:45 am

I am trying the trail version at the moment. I currently use LR ans PS and was thinking of jumping ship to C1 but this pricing policy has put me off. It’s sad because I like the interface and use.
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