Aperture / Capture One Workflow

Discussions, questions, comments and suggestions regarding Capture One PRO, Capture One PRO For Sony / Fujifilm, Capture One DB and Capture One Express For Sony / For Fujifilm 12.x for Mac

Aperture / Capture One Workflow

Postby HugoinParis » Tue May 14, 2019 2:26 pm

Hello

I'm still pondering how to evolve my workflow based on Aperture, which is soon to be demised.

So far I :
A) import everything in Aperture in a referenced library, and cull photos, which includes :
- stacking photos that are similar
- deleting unwanted ones
- adapting time /date if necessary
- geotagging
- face recognition confirmation
- keywording
- rating

B) export best ones to Photos in jpeg format (in a managed library that is backed to cloud)
- this enables me to retrieve my pics by place, people, and event on every device i own, at any time, and share it on social media. And also the benefit of emerging AI based recognition
- while cutting the size by more than 10, and so reducing the tarif plan from 120 € / year for 2Tb to marginally nothing (I already have an unfilled 50 Gb plan at 1€ / month)

C) import Aperture catalog in C1 catalog (actually planning to do so in the future. I 've only initiated the first phase with the current pics I have)
- for the rare that I want to edit for print

The import in C1 has the following inconveniences :
- it does not handle stacks, which means that all my not-head-of-pile pics are not geotagged, keyworded, rated
- it does not import jpeg+raw, but only one of the two, which is depending on my work in Aperture a raw or most often a jpeg
- my 500 Aperture projects are transformed in C1 collections, which is OK, but their chronological order is not maintained which makes it quite impossible to use
- I can't have it impose my personalized icc profile (the current PhaseOne is much too orange on my Canon eos7d, and is unusable)

As a consequence, if I want to edit a picture I have to retrieve it in C1 through the file structure (which is year / event) based on the rating I put in Aperture, then ask for a file synchronization and get my pic in raw format, with eventually the others of the pile if I changed my mind on which one is the best. That is not ideal but it could work for some time. Note that it destroys the collection assignation (new synchronized images are not placed with their jpeg pair), which becomes incomplete. And of course the geo tagging, keywording, rating

On the other hand, if I would like to use C1 as my prioritary DAM, I would loose all my metadata editing facilities, and much of the search facilities, as well as UI simplicity, including stacking.
I could marginally make the current workflow better by adding some applescript but It seems overkill given the difficulties that would remain. Maybe the one for importing the missing raw in the jeg/raw pair.

So I guess my future is to dedicate a non evolving computer to Aperture, up to someone comes up with a DAM equivalent to this 10 year old software :-(
HugoinParis
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:19 am

Re: Aperture / Capture One Workflow

Postby NNN634623303328933092 » Tue May 14, 2019 5:21 pm

I migrated to Capture One from Aperture shortly after Apple announced it was abandoning it. The transition was difficult but ultimately rewarding. There is no way to get around the fact that you will need to rethink your workflow and retrain your brain. Yes, Aperture's management of large libraries and overall DAM capabilities was superb...but it's unrealistic to think that you will be able to port over years of data management to new software and have it adapt to your specific and unique workflow. You can wait for 50 years and that still isn't going to happen. I would suggest an evolving user might make more sense than a non evolving computer.
NNN634623303328933092
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:05 pm

Re: Aperture / Capture One Workflow

Postby tenmangu81 » Tue May 14, 2019 6:41 pm

Hi Hugo,

I migrated from LR to Capture One 4 years ago.
And I got the confirmation of what I already knew : you must forget all your workflow and habits when you migrate from one develpment software to an other, and adopt new ways of thinking and working.
Yes, the Capture One catalog is not as good as was the one of Aperture or Lightroom. Yes, there are some tricks which existed in those softwares and not in Capture One. But, conversely, there are other tricks and capacities/performances that exist in Capture One and not in other softwares.
Start from almost scratch, and you won't be disappointed, I am sure.

Robert (in Paris...)
tenmangu81
 
Posts: 724
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:33 pm
Location: Paris, France

Re: Aperture / Capture One Workflow

Postby Eric Nepean » Wed May 15, 2019 12:34 am

HugoinParis wrote:Hello

So I guess my future is to dedicate a non evolving computer to Aperture, up to someone comes up with a DAM equivalent to this 10 year old software :-(


My high school teacher (from 1970's) did a similar approach regarding his 1996 Mac and a very special database. He is now 86, and it hasn't happened yet. But now there are no migration tools anymore.

I migrated from Aperture to Capture One in 2016. That year's Capture One wasn't very good, and a net step down from Aperture.

This year's Capture One (version 12) is a net step up from Aperture, IMHO, some things are better, some things are worse but taken overall, better. We typically get one significantly updated version of Capture One per year. This way more than we used to get from Apple.

If you stick with Aperture 3.6 on some old Mac forever, you will find that new cameras are not supported. Eventually you will buy a new camera body, it won't be supported and this will break your workflow anyway. (I beleive that Aperture already doesn't support Nikon Z bodies). You may also find problems with new printers and with iCloud compatibility in the future.

You may also find that your old Mac fails, and then a repair will be difficult.

You may also find in that in the future the Aperture Import features on applications such as Lightroom and Capture One are no longer maintained.
Cheers, Eric
[late 2015 iMac, 4GHz i7, 24GB RAM, external SSDs. GX8, E-M1, GX7, GM5, GM1 ....]
Eric Nepean
 
Posts: 445
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:02 am
Location: Ottawa

Re: Aperture / Capture One Workflow

Postby HugoinParis » Wed May 15, 2019 8:55 am

You have some good points. That's why I have restructured my database to a referenced database, with a robust structure linked to the file system, and exported my metadata, so that i may reimport it myself in the future. It's not as if the importing solution from capture one was rocket science...
You might also have noted that I can marginally export from my Aperture to the current C1 solution for as long as I want.

On the other hand, the market for selling a migration tool that is effective is now, with the next Apple OS revealing the problem. A company called aquafadas is working on it, I heard. Photos is also evolving with an ecosystem of scripts
Capture One may feel the pressure also. This a one-time opportunity to grab a portion of the million users of Aperture.

I also believe that the lack of a good DAM in C1 is a sign that they don't take the consumer market seriously, and this is a problem. The odds of seeing them go the route of Adobe with a forced multi-hundreds dollars a year subscription model, milking the pros, is real.

Frankly, as other people have noted, the level of C1 DAM is sub-par, the keywords indexation scheme is an example of bad design, the collection names are not searchable, you can't edit tags, you don't have any map view....

You stated that the 12 version is a net step up from Aperture. You surely must be referring to the raw capabilities, because as far as DAM is concerned I'm not aware of any progress, which in itself is also worrying.
HugoinParis
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:19 am

Re: Aperture / Capture One Workflow

Postby HugoinParis » Wed May 15, 2019 9:29 am

tenmangu81 wrote:Hi Hugo,

I migrated from LR to Capture One 4 years ago.
And I got the confirmation of what I already knew : you must forget all your workflow and habits when you migrate from one develpment software to an other, and adopt new ways of thinking and working.

Robert (in Paris...)


Actually, that was my state of mind when I bought Capture One, but I still can't do it.
I'm not prepared to forgo the geolocation of my pics, and not happy with the lack of support for JPEG + RAW pairs, as I believe it is important to have some kind of manufacturer color reference.
HugoinParis
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:19 am

Re: Aperture / Capture One Workflow

Postby Eric Nepean » Wed May 15, 2019 9:51 am

HugoinParis wrote:You have some good points. That's why I have restructured my database to a referenced database, with a robust structure linked to the file system, and exported my metadata, so that i may reimport it myself in the future. It's not as if the importing solution from capture one was rocket science...
You might also have noted that I can marginally export from my Aperture to the current C1 solution for as long as I want.

On the other hand, the market for selling a migration tool that is effective is now, with the next Apple OS revealing the problem. A company called aquafadas is working on it, I heard. Photos is also evolving with an ecosystem of scripts
Capture One may feel the pressure also. This a one-time opportunity to grab a portion of the million users of Aperture.

I also believe that the lack of a good DAM in C1 is a sign that they don't take the consumer market seriously, and this is a problem. The odds of seeing them go the route of Adobe with a forced multi-hundreds dollars a year subscription model, milking the pros, is real.

Frankly, as other people have noted, the level of C1 DAM is sub-par, the keywords indexation scheme is an example of bad design, the collection names are not searchable, you can't edit tags, you don't have any map view....

You stated that the 12 version is a net step up from Aperture. You surely must be referring to the raw capabilities, because as far as DAM is concerned I'm not aware of any progress, which in itself is also worrying.

I could point out some of the Applescripts that have been written to augment Capture One's capabilitirs, or that the Session workflow may be better for you since you have little interest in using C1's DAM, but there would be no point.

The C1 workflow you have decided on is quite cumbersome, and will be a poor reward for invetmeneet of time and money.
I have been here four years, the technical issues that are bothering you do not change very quickly, and will cause you no end of frustration.

You would be better to cut your losses and move on to these other options that you have shown are better for you.

Best of Luck.
Cheers, Eric
[late 2015 iMac, 4GHz i7, 24GB RAM, external SSDs. GX8, E-M1, GX7, GM5, GM1 ....]
Eric Nepean
 
Posts: 445
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:02 am
Location: Ottawa

Re: Aperture / Capture One Workflow

Postby HugoinParis » Wed May 15, 2019 11:02 pm

My workflow enables me to share rapidly all worthwhile images and I don't see how I could make it simpler with the same benefits, and even less with C1 as a primary DAM, so there is a rationale.

Maybe I should indeed consider a session mode. I've just found out that to import one image in my catalog (for example the raw version of the jpeg in the catalog I want to work on), C1 needs to review all pictures in a folder before allowing to select it. Which takes forever, like 1'15" to review a 1500 pics shootage. Brings me back in the 1980's. Clearly that is not workable. For the same action Graphic Converter, which is a one-man shop, takes maybe 10 seconds.

So not only the DAM is minimal and has performance issues, but he obliges me to import all pictures in itself. That is really not encouraging to switch over.
HugoinParis
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:19 am

Re: Aperture / Capture One Workflow

Postby Nature Isme » Thu May 16, 2019 4:06 am

What machine are you using? I'm on a 2012 Mac Pro, 32 GB RAM, catalog and OS on an SSD and images on a HDD, running the current version of C1 on Sierra.

I just switched from a collection with 360+ images to one with almost 7700 and the switch happened almost instantaneously and I was able to select and start editing a random image.

Do you have your preferences set to generate large thumbnails? And what kind of volume is your catalog stored on (SSD/HDD)? You should expect hard disks, especially 5400 rpm ones, to be pretty slow.
Nature Isme
 
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 5:32 am

Re: Aperture / Capture One Workflow

Postby HugoinParis » Thu May 16, 2019 9:52 am

I also have a Mac Pro 16GB RAM catalog and OS on an SSD and images on a HDD. Actually my point was that you need to first import all your images before having the reactivity you mention.

I've done it this night. I just find it overkill to have to do this when what I want is only to select my best ones to edit them.

Just to clarify, I was just following a reasonable route here : I've been with Aperture for more than 10 years, my 20 000 pics are rated so I know which one are the best. By default they are jpeg+raw pairs presenting the jpeg version, as this is the default Aperture behavior and accelerates performance. A few of them I've edited are presenting the raw version.

I followed C1 recommended route by importing my aperture catalogue. Now I had a C1 catalogue that was mostly jpeg.

To get access to the raw, I tried to import them on demand when needed and that's where it failed (see above). So I had to synchronise all folders (few hours tonight) to get the reactivity needed. With the results that the new raws are dissociated from their jpeg pair, and not tagged nor rated anymore. And also not in the right collection, which always only contain jpeg. And I have 30 000 files (now raw included) in my catalog when what I want is mostly select a few hundreds, the 5stars and if needed a few others to edit them.

I'm well aware I could have only exported the 5 stars to C1, and actually that's what I did originally, but first that defeats the purpose to give C1 a chance as a catalog, second, that also defeats the purpose of trying to use C1 good Raw capabilities to optimize 4* and 3*. And third, I don't see it play well in the long run.

I could also have scripted Aperture to convert all pairs to raw first, but that would slow down Aperture use and also jeopardizes the edits I've made on jpeg versions (typically some automatic adjustments on 3 stars pics).

I guess I will stay that way : whenever I need a C1 edit, locate the jpeg starred version in a collection, then open the library and manually locate the raw counterpart. That 's not what I would expect from a professional software, but I will deal with it (but likely not pay for yearly updates !)
As I see it, if one day I have to abandon Aperture, I will try a script to copy tags from jpeg to the raw version and pair them.
I understand I will also have to write a script for the aperture gps information and visages missing in the exif. Lot of work, I do not contemplate happily, so better is to wait and see how it evolves in the next two years.
HugoinParis
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 12:19 am


Return to Capture One 12.x Software for Mac



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests