Customise the ICC Profile Drop Down

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Customise the ICC Profile Drop Down

Postby jasonholtphoto » Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:09 am

Hi, I am a Fuji user and when looking for the Fuji profiles in the ICC profile dropdown, I find there are several steps required to navigate the menu. Is there a way of ensuring I see just the profiles I require in the top level menu as soon as I hit the drop down?

I hope my question is clear.
Many thanks.
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Re: Customise the ICC Profile Drop Down

Postby Paul_Steunebrink » Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:23 pm

I assume you refer to the Base Characteristics tool.

Open the ICC profile drop-down list. Scroll to the bottom and click on Show Recommended. That will shorten the list to Fuji only.
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Re: Customise the ICC Profile Drop Down

Postby jasonholtphoto » Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:27 pm

Thanks Paul, and apologies I wasn't clear - I am referring to the base characteristics.
I tried clicking show recommended. It doesn't work.
All I see after clicking that is the generic XT-2 profile.
Any thoughts?
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Re: Customise the ICC Profile Drop Down

Postby SFA » Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:00 pm

If you camera is an XT-2 then that is the recommended ICC Profile.

You can choose any other profile from "Show All" but I'm not sure what that would really offer you in terms of benefit.

However I think you may be looking for the Curves option for the film styles, etc., as created for the XT-2.

Supported Fuji cameras have an extended (compared to other manufacturers) range of curves that match the camera's sensor output to Fuji Film characteristics and I wonder if that is what you are looking for and trying to shorten?

If so there may be ways to do so but there are some wider aspects to consider since the curves are provided as part of the main installation rather than a user based pick and mix option.

I'll await your response before attempting to describe things further in case I am missing your point.


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Re: Customise the ICC Profile Drop Down

Postby Paul_Steunebrink » Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:42 am

NNN636556879369190343 wrote:Thanks Paul, and apologies I wasn't clear - I am referring to the base characteristics.
I tried clicking show recommended. It doesn't work.
All I see after clicking that is the generic XT-2 profile.
Any thoughts?

There is only this profile for your X-T2 in Capture One.
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Re: Customise the ICC Profile Drop Down

Postby jasonholtphoto » Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:57 pm

Thanks Paul and Grant,
I am a little bit confused - may be my terminology is incorrect.
In the Base Characteristics tool, I see ICC Profile dropdown and Curve dropdown.

The default ICC profile for my X-T2 is the X-T2 Generic profile and I see that in the ICC Profile dropdown.
I also see a menu option entitled Fuji, with several sub menu options which allow me to select a film simulation.
I'd like to 'flatten' that menu structure for quickness, providing the film simulations in the top level instead of several sub levels down.

The Curve dropdown only allows me to select Auto or Linear Response.
I tend to leave it on Auto.

Hopefully that makes sense?
I am trying to utilise the Base characteristics tool to get a better skin tone when I tether.
Currently the images are WAY too warm and the colours are shifted when the generic profile is used, even with correct custom WB. Any suggestions for more neutral setup would be gratefully received too.

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Re: Customise the ICC Profile Drop Down

Postby SFA » Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:15 am

Jason,

Some basics just to set the scene before considering the Fuji special bits.

For a RAW file the ICC profile is used to map the data coming from the sensor into something that is balanced in some way for colour and exposure interpretation and a little sharpening so that the results look something like an image rather than a dull splodge of colours. (Maybe not that bad but ...)

The most basic and "pure" interpretation is "Linear" which will normally give a fairly flat and dull rendition of the scene.

This may in fact be your prefect starting point for generating you own preferred skin tone look but let's set the aside for a moment.

Each supported camera body will have at least one ICC profile, usually referred to as "Generic" is developed by Phase but sometimes there is a "Manufacturer" provided profile as well (Notably Sony) which is the profile delivered by the camera rather than the Phase developed Capture One profile. There may be subtle differences. Whether there are indeed these 2 versions might depend on the age of the camera (older one more likely to have multiple Profiles if the camera come out before the Manufacturer had a commercial relationship with Phase) and, I would speculate, the cameras likely position in the pro or enthusiast user market. The more up-market the more likely the Phase will have considered producing their own profile to complement the manufacturer profile.

Some much older bodies have multiple ICC profiles to cater for specific shooting types and deal with the nature of colour handling in early digital sensors. I mention it here only for completeness. I don't think that will be the case for any Fuji bodies.

The default situation is that Capture One will pick a default Profile for the camera that created the image. If there IS more than one profile one of them will be set as the preferred default but you can over ride it or indeed introduce your own and make an alternative profile the default for use with that camera. Normally the options available will be restricted to only Profiles related to that camera as defined by Capture One.

HOWEVER, if you use the "Show all" option you can pick any profile available for any other camera or image file source and I thing this is the multi-level Menu you are referring to. You probably should ignore this. You MAY find an alternative RAW data interpretation that gives you a preferred skin tone reproduction but it might well slightly alter other colours. In general that would not be the best approach to get the colours you seek.

To get rid of the extended list scroll to the bottom of the list and click on "Show Recommended". (As Paul has already suggested I see.)

Now for the Curves.

Most cameras have 5 values in the Curves drop down list.

Auto
Film Extra Shadow
Film High Contrast
Film Standard
Linear response.

Auto almost alway means "Film Standard" for MOST cameras. This is an interpretation of the RAW conversion to make it look somewhat "Film like" rather than the flatter digital Linear output.

The Extra Shadow and High Contrast are additional interpretations that offer something that equates to traditional film look from pre-digital days.

The Fuji implementation, as I understand it, is a little different - at least for the supported cameras of recent years.

For Fuji the film look applied will most likely come from the camera settings - just as applied to the in camera generated jpgs. So in this case the "Auto" curve will be set to whatever the setting was in camera when the shot was taken. However since the RAW file, unlike the in-camera jpg, is an interpretation, you can choose any of the other Curves and for Fuji this includes a range of Fujifilm Film simulations.

If none of the simulations suit your needs you can create your own settings, save them as a style (for example) likely based on a the Linear Curve because that should be easier to work with and simply apply the style as you shoot.

Of you could generate your own ICC profile and import it and make that the default.

However those are subject in their own right and much more complex to consider than would be sensible here answering you Base Characteristics tool question.

And there are very likely to be much better resources than me to help such things.


HTH.


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Re: Customise the ICC Profile Drop Down

Postby Paul_Steunebrink » Sat Dec 22, 2018 12:49 pm

NNN636556879369190343 wrote:In the Base Characteristics tool, I see ICC Profile dropdown and Curve dropdown.

The default ICC profile for my X-T2 is the X-T2 Generic profile and I see that in the ICC Profile dropdown.

So far, I can follow you.
NNN636556879369190343 wrote:I also see a menu option entitled Fuji, with several sub menu options which allow me to select a film simulation.
I'd like to 'flatten' that menu structure for quickness, providing the film simulations in the top level instead of several sub levels down.

Now you lost me. Do you have 3rd party film simulations installed? I am not familiair with such option in CO11, not even in the latest update 11.3.2 when working with an X-T2 RAF file.
Film Simulation were introduced in CO12.0. Maybe a good idea to try that version anyway.
NNN636556879369190343 wrote:The Curve dropdown only allows me to select Auto or Linear Response.
I tend to leave it on Auto.

Also a non-standard configuration. As Grant pointed out, there are at least 5 film curves.
NNN636556879369190343 wrote:Hopefully that makes sense?
I am trying to utilise the Base characteristics tool to get a better skin tone when I tether.
Currently the images are WAY too warm and the colours are shifted when the generic profile is used, even with correct custom WB. Any suggestions for more neutral setup would be gratefully received too.

OK, this is what you actually want to solve. I suggest to get rid of all non-standard tools first and take it from there.

In general, trying CO12 for 30 days would be a good start. This may also help in the color shifting issue you have, although I can not assess the root cause of it now.

Again, a set of screenshots would have been very helpful. Just put them on a internet storage and share the link in a post.
Best regards,
Paul E. Steunebrink, Image Alchemist (website All about Capture One), Capture One trainer
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Re: Customise the ICC Profile Drop Down

Postby jasonholtphoto » Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:20 pm

Thank you both.
I have trialled C1 Pro 12 and things seem better.
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