View photos in subfolders

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View photos in subfolders

Postby Tonyh-s » Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:06 am

Hi All,

In my Capture One catalogue, I want to be able to click in a parent folder that contains lots of sub folders with photos in them and see all the photos in in the subfolders at once.

Two ways I thought I might be able to do it are, select somewhere in Capture One an option to view sub folders, the same as the import module does, or failing that a smart album that shows all the photos in the parent folder and subfolders. I cannot find out how to do either way. Help! Can this be achieved?

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Re: View photos in subfolders

Postby Paul_Steunebrink » Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:11 pm

Hi, I am afraid that both options - or any other option - is not available in Capture One.
Best regards,
Paul E. Steunebrink, Image Alchemist (website All about Capture One), Capture One trainer
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Re: View photos in subfolders

Postby SFA » Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:45 pm

Tonyh-s wrote:Hi All,

In my Capture One catalogue, I want to be able to click in a parent folder that contains lots of sub folders with photos in them and see all the photos in in the subfolders at once.

Two ways I thought I might be able to do it are, select somewhere in Capture One an option to view sub folders, the same as the import module does, or failing that a smart album that shows all the photos in the parent folder and subfolders. I cannot find out how to do either way. Help! Can this be achieved?

Tony



Why are folders an sub folders important to you in a catalogue scenario?

The concept of a searchable catalogue (for example smart albums on filters in general) is that putting items in their own data silo is not important to the catalogue making on-the-fly grouping readily available.

So one needs to consider the importance of folders as methods of data selection and segregation for one's purposes.

If being able to select outside those silos is a key requirement then what is the purpose of the silos?

I'm not saying there is no purpose just questioning which is the most important and which is the easier problem to solve of the two possible conflicting needs.


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Re: View photos in subfolders

Postby syncrasy » Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:01 pm

SFA wrote:
Why are folders an sub folders important to you in a catalogue scenario?

The concept of a searchable catalogue (for example smart albums on filters in general) is that putting items in their own data silo is not important to the catalogue making on-the-fly grouping readily available.

So one needs to consider the importance of folders as methods of data selection and segregation for one's purposes.

If being able to select outside those silos is a key requirement then what is the purpose of the silos?

I'm not saying there is no purpose just questioning which is the most important and which is the easier problem to solve of the two possible conflicting needs.

Grant


Oh, Grant, we've been over this a hundred times. Haven't you ever used a proper DAM software? :wink: (I'm gently ribbing you.) And in fact, I would prefer not to have to use different silos and just rely on the DAM metadata, but out of necessity I have had to change my practice. For those who use folder hierarchies, either out of preference or necessity, not allowing users to see all the images in a folder's subfolders is just dumb design.

Here's my explanation from a similar thread where I explain the value of the "Show Union of Folder Hierarchies" function in Media Pro:

syncrasy wrote:I think having the option to view both master folder and subfolder contents is basic to a good DAM. For example, I recently split a single archive folder containing nearly 30,000 files into "year" subfolders to improve loading performance of both my RAW editor and Media Pro. If I need to edit an image, I go to the appropriate subfolder. But often I'll need to view all of my images (e.g, to perform batch annotations, or to perform a quick keyword search on only that folder). The option to "Show Union of Folder Hierarchies" makes this task simple. No need for smart folders or filters. It would be wise for PO to add this functionality to CO.
Last edited by syncrasy on Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: View photos in subfolders

Postby syncrasy » Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:24 pm

Tonyh-s wrote:Hi All,

In my Capture One catalogue, I want to be able to click in a parent folder that contains lots of sub folders with photos in them and see all the photos in in the subfolders at once.

Two ways I thought I might be able to do it are, select somewhere in Capture One an option to view sub folders, the same as the import module does, or failing that a smart album that shows all the photos in the parent folder and subfolders. I cannot find out how to do either way. Help! Can this be achieved?

Tony


You should submit a feature request via Support. Ask for the "Show Union of Folder Hierarchies" function (similar to the one in the discontinued Media Pro). It's shouldn't be that complex of a programming fix, so the more people who request it, the more likely PO will add it.
— Mark
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DAM: Media Pro SE
Image Editors: Nikon Capture NX 2, NX-D • Photoshop CS6

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Re: View photos in subfolders

Postby Tonyh-s » Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:47 pm

Thanks, I will put in a support request.

The reason why my file system is in subfolders is so I can still find the photos in my system, with or without any additional software. It also makes it easier to move from one software programme to another at a later stage. I think that Mark out it better than I could. My system is based on the Scott Kelby's 'Slim' System that works very well for me.

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Re: View photos in subfolders

Postby Maurice01 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:53 am

Tonyh-s wrote:Thanks, I will put in a support request.

The reason why my file system is in subfolders is so I can still find the photos in my system, with or without any additional software. It also makes it easier to move from one software programme to another at a later stage. I think that Mark out it better than I could. My system is based on the Scott Kelby's 'Slim' System that works very well for me.

Tony

I'm amazed at the basic and seemingly essential functions one has to 'defend' themselves for here at times. It seems obvious that one would have an organized subfolder structure, that's just practical, better on the filesystem, and easy to backup. It seems logical that software wouldn't ignore this structure that's already in place, but take advantage and improve on it. Indeed by allowing something like the selection of larger parent and grandparent folders at once and showing all of its contents. The beauty is that this is possible only because of the indexing of a catalog. Why would we want to organize everything a second time with virtual folders or tags and limit ourselves to that when the most important of file hierarchy is already in place..
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Re: View photos in subfolders

Postby Class A » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:19 pm

Allowing the option to see all images in a folder, including those in subfolders is a natural and obviously useful piece of functionality.

One uses subfolders to structure content, e.g., to have a quick way to apply certain changes to a subgroup of images only, to support locating images later on, etc.

Nevertheless, sometimes a wider view is useful, say when wanting to view all the images from a holiday trip, even though photos are structured according to location within subfolders. A wedding photographer may have a folder per wedding but a number of subfolders to structure the content according to formals, reception, dance, etc.

I've created a support case suggesting this functionality but so far without luck. I'm very grateful to Phase One for having taken up a large number of suggestions that I made, but sometimes I wonder how decisions are made.

I have a feeling that the options to see all images in a folder (including those in subfolders) and being able to add new subfolders when synchronising a folder would find more grateful users (if properly announced and explained) over time than say the annotation tool introduced in C1 11. I believe the little things that help with everyday productivity are more important than what appears to be a fringe functionality (instructing retouchers what they need to work on).
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Re: View photos in subfolders

Postby SFA » Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:17 pm

Maurice01 wrote:
Tonyh-s wrote:Thanks, I will put in a support request.

The reason why my file system is in subfolders is so I can still find the photos in my system, with or without any additional software. It also makes it easier to move from one software programme to another at a later stage. I think that Mark out it better than I could. My system is based on the Scott Kelby's 'Slim' System that works very well for me.

Tony

I'm amazed at the basic and seemingly essential functions one has to 'defend' themselves for here at times. It seems obvious that one would have an organized subfolder structure, that's just practical, better on the filesystem, and easy to backup. It seems logical that software wouldn't ignore this structure that's already in place, but take advantage and improve on it. Indeed by allowing something like the selection of larger parent and grandparent folders at once and showing all of its contents. The beauty is that this is possible only because of the indexing of a catalog. Why would we want to organize everything a second time with virtual folders or tags and limit ourselves to that when the most important of file hierarchy is already in place..


To a computer system all folders are virtual within a particular storage area.

Physical disks are a different boundary, usually a boundary that results in decreased performance in some way irrespective of the potential speed of the storage device.

If one introduces the human concept of filing cabinets (Folders and sub-folder) to the process for some reason, no matter how valid that need might be due to other applications being involved, one is potentially compromising the way one 'sees' the potential of the computer. More specifically the potential of an application to overcome some of the constraints of encoding methods for data storage that result in limits to the number of files in certain 'locations'. (Less significant these days than it was when that constraint was explained to humans by way of the example of a filing cabinet with folders (drawers) and sub folders.

Take the popular example of folders based on date. Typically something like Year/Month/Day of month.

The filter system in either a Catalogue or a Session already automatically offers that break out selection for all images one has associated with it.

So for a catalogue, all original images and for a session all imported images or 'favourites'. It does not matter where they are stored or whether one has decided to group by, for example, content. Indeed grouping by content might be more useful that date, but date is the most consistent bit of data usually available on import. Just not very useful for retrieving what you may be looking for in all situations. Or, perhaps, in most situations for most people.

In the Mobile world Apps tend to track the data they send or receive via a mobile device and so have a natural, usually date and time based, index system that extends to the file name. Manageing that by folder seems to be possible in some apps bit not pushed to the users as a requirement.

Gallery apps don't care at all and will typically be very happy grabbing anything that looks like an image and organising it by date because that is all that is on offer unless people have geo-codes available or have taken the time to tag images or, maybe, have some sort of face recognition facility available that might do some tagging for them.

Younger generations seem quite happy with that. Standing at the filing cabinet putting stuff away and then trying to find it again was never much fun for most people.

There are also some practical matters about opening up a general selection of "sub-folders" when the folder structure is flexible - in particular referenced folders and what constraints one might wish to apply especially in connection with Synchonising any sub folders.

If, as some applications do (or used to do), one is forced to import all originals into an "internal" folder structure it is clear that anything that gets into that structure has been put there deliberately in most cases.

However if one is working with referenced images where the folders in which they are located are not totally controlled by the catalogue's internal folder structure then seeking to sync subfolders to discover new images (as someone somewhere surely will even if that person is not you) could lead to some very unexpected results. Just as one sometimes sees in Gallery apps that may not have been quite as well thought through as would be desirable or where humans have been allowed to mess with the way the OS ecosystem is intended to deal with storage of images for different purposes.

The one sure thing in all of this is that no matter what the designers and developers do a significant number of users will find it necessary to point out that, in their opinion, the resulting functionality is wrong. This will be true even if the option to turn drill down into any sub-folders can be turned on or off.

Just my thoughts of course. I fully expect many to disagree.


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Re: View photos in subfolders

Postby IanL » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:13 pm

Class A wrote:Allowing the option to see all images in a folder, including those in subfolders is a natural and obviously useful piece of functionality.


I cannot say I disagree with this however I have come to actually like the way C1 does this (or doesn't do this:-) . I import sessions into a C1 catalogue and in doing so I arrange it so that only my selects are in the root folder for a job - my duds are deleted and my soso shots remain in the capture sub folder. By doing this I see my best images from each job as I move around my folder structure. Like I said I actually like this now.

Here is a link to a fuller description plus how to create smart collections that might satisfy some of your roll up everything needs: viewtopic.php?f=72&t=27920#p133562
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Re: View photos in subfolders

Postby Class A » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:15 pm

IanL wrote:I cannot say I disagree with this however I have come to actually like the way C1 does this (or doesn't do this:-) .

You'd just leave the option to show subfolder content unticked then. :)

I don't see why we both couldn't be happy campers, provided that showing subfolder content is an option. Lightroom has had this option for years and I found it useful to change it dynamically, depending on what I was trying to accomplish.

IanL wrote:Here is a link to a fuller description plus how to create smart collections that might satisfy some of your roll up everything needs: viewtopic.php?f=72&t=27920#p133562

Thanks, I'll have a look, but smart collections will never be a satisfactory solution for me as they require computing resources. Even though I personally keep my catalogues relatively small and have a powerful machine, I wouldn't want to lose any computing resources to the dynamic computation of folder contents which is entirely unecessary in principle.

EDIT: I had a look at your approach. It wouldn't work for me because my subfolders are based on locations, scenes, clothing, etc. Such content-based structures would only be supported through virtual collections when heavily employing keywording. I'd rather avoid the effort and the filtering required.

Furthermore, I personally wouldn't use a physical structure on a storage medium to group my favourites from a shoot. The set of favourites can be quite dynamic, changing as one revisits early discards, demotes former favourites, etc. In my view, such a volatile concept is better handled through ratings or colour codings.
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