Capture One 12.0 wish list....?

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Re: Capture One 12.0 wish list....?

Postby SFA » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:51 am

Denis,

Export Original does nothing to the file except change the file format.

Export Variants will add the changes as applied by C1 and DOES allow DNG (16bit) to be specified as the type of output file. Or at least that is how is seems to be.

Affinity has the various merging technologies that people mention on wish lists but as far as I can tell so far that functionality is not available for round tripping.

I can create DNG files and Affinity will read them, process and offer me something back (with or without intermediate remedial work as part of the process) but making Affinity the external editor just puts all of the files opened into the "develop" persona. It would be quicker just to process them out as DNG files, start the HDR or Stacking facility in Affinity, load the files, watch the processing, do any remedial work when offered, save the file back with the original dng files (but not as a dng file) and then, if required, open that in C1.

Hopefully Helicon offers itself up without the equivalent "develop" persona step and of course I may have missed something in the settings for Affinity that also makes that step obsolete?

I'm beginning to suspect that the interactive use of external tools for merging, hdr, focus stacking and so on may require dedicated interfaces to make them work as plugins. That is basically what has happened in the "Big Data" business intelligence market. Now relatively mature that market probably has enough demand for standard interfaces to be available to those who feel their product needs them. There is enough revenue in that market to focus (excuse the pun) all parties' minds on preparing, sharing and making enhancement over time as pain free a possible for users - though also a lot of latency with users not necessarily jumping on the latest and greatest version as soon as it becomes available. Some wait a very long time indeed.

As for the benefits of adding lens corrections to the images prior to blending .... I agree BUT seem to recall a lot of discussion about potential issues for certain types of photography with certain types of equipment and depending in how the stack of images were produced.

Landscapes taken for an exposure spread are likely to be quite safe (other than movement or some sort) but focus stacking, depending on when and how, can be quite demanding for micro precision work with certain types of lens.

I'm no expert so I would have to go digging to get to the details.

Basically the answer may not always be the same for everyone was the message I remember.


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Re: Capture One 12.0 wish list....?

Postby Dinarius » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:16 am

Grant,

Thanks again for the reply.

Just to be clear....

1. I'm aware that Export Originals exports the files with no edits attached. But, I never mentioned Export Originals in any of my posts. I'm not clear why you are. I'm talking about Edit With..., a different animal entirely. Edit With... does export files to Helicon with edits attached.

2. You keep mentioning Affinity. I'm not clear why about this either.

I would simply like the Edit With... dialog amended to include .dng. That's all.

Then, whether exporting to Helicon, with or without Lens Corrections embedded, would be good or bad for a given stack of images could be easily established on a case by case basis.

I would simply like the option of a single, largely untouched, Helicon-rendered .dng file back in C1 for complete editing.

As I wrote above, I can do this already longhand. But, adding .dng to the "Edit With..." dialog is surely not rocket science.

Thanks again.

Denis
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Re: Capture One 12.0 wish list....?

Postby IanL » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:59 pm

Dinarius wrote:1. I'm aware that Export Originals exports the files with no edits attached. But, I never mentioned Export Originals in any of my posts. I'm not clear why you are. I'm talking about Edit With..., a different animal entirely. Edit With... does export files to Helicon with edits attached.


Grant is just trying to find you a workaround I think

Dinarius wrote:2. You keep mentioning Affinity. I'm not clear why about this either.


Because he has experience with Affinity as an external editor

Dinarius wrote:I would simply like the Edit With... dialog amended to include .dng. That's all.

Then, whether exporting to Helicon, with or without Lens Corrections embedded, would be good or bad for a given stack of images could be easily established on a case by case basis.

I would simply like the option of a single, largely untouched, Helicon-rendered .dng file back in C1 for complete editing.

As I wrote above, I can do this already longhand. But, adding .dng to the "Edit With..." dialog is surely not rocket science.


I hear ya but I would like them to consider the bigger picture and make "Edit With..." do a little more that just adding .dng as a choice.

I would like to see the ability to launch external editors with multiple images opened as layers or as separate images (my choice) and I would like to see them opened with or without the existing edits from C1 (my choice). Basically since this is a 12.0 wish list I would like them to spend a little more time and consider the bigger pictured than just adding .dng support.

I suspect that is where Grant is coming from but I am sure he will correct that if need be :D
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Re: Capture One 12.0 wish list....?

Postby SFA » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:42 pm

IanL,

Kind of where I am coming from, yeah.

You are right about Affinity. I have it. I don't have PS or Helicon. It is something I can try to look at the workflow which, to me, seems quite similar in all of them. It's unlikely to be anything too different really.

The target application for the processing wants to be presented with some suitable images in a format it can deal with.

For now let's ignore the feeder application.

So you start off the process, identify the files you want to work with, tell the target application where they are.

The application loads the files, does what it does with them maybe with some specific user input preferences for the set or sets in the flow, and churns out a result file of the type you have selected from what it can churn out. It put the file where you tell it to put it - typically the same place the files you supplied it with at the start of the process but it may be somewhere else.

Is that about it?

Your preparatory choice is whether you send the original unaltered files or something you have already worked on. Both are possible. The target application only cares that the file type is one it can work with.

Now, what happens when you initiate the process from an external application. Say LR or C1 for example?

Other than having an interface that starts the target program and resumes when it has finished - not much else?

I have watched the Helicon videos and the specific process steps are pretty much the same as what I can make use of myself in the Affinity version of the processing. I don't claim they are completely equivalant. But the process flow and its interaction with C1 as an external product calling on then to process some images looks basically the same. The caller application runs a "script" (in old terminology) that run the target program, allows the user to use it and then allows the user to see the result once they (the users) know the Helicon/Affinity/PS/whatever process has finished.

Is there more to it than that currently?

If not then I can define a simple Process that create some dng files as output and has an "Open With" for the files of, in my case, Affinity. Affinity will open the files, albeit in is Develop" mode by default. I can then process them to merge them and having specified the file type I want at the end and where to save it. Once done I can select the file in C1 and do something with it.

I gather from the Helicon videos that it offers the same functionality.

Now although I personally do not foresee a need for a lot of file merging I can understand that some people will so if there are ways to enhance the interface in some way that really make it more useful then sure, it's worth considering and I don't doubt that the process could be finessed. I guess Apple users like Eric might choose to personalise things to very specific requirements of their own using Apple Script.

The thing is that the request (dng file) , as presented, already seems to be possible through a slightly different but possibly more useful route.

Also, since C1 adds nothing to the merging process itself and these days even the order of the images is likely to be assessed and decided automatically in the merging application, the options for improvement must be somewhat limited.

If the merging application has an SDK that provides for third party applications to feed in preferences, settings and maybe some other factors then the "parent" application could potentially be modified to include such controls. We have seen this in the case of some hardware developments for example

The downside of that suggestion is that I would then expect people to come up with "If you can do that with application A why can't you do the same for application B" with complete disregard about whether application B actually has any built in capability to be influenced by an external program.

All just my observations and opinions of course. Everyone else's mileage may vary and probably will.

:wink:


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Re: Capture One 12.0 wish list....?

Postby NNN634523208431475184 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:57 pm

Keyword synonyms and the ability to prevent exporting of some parent keywords. Keywording is a trainwreck.
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Re: Capture One 12.0 wish list....?

Postby NNN634523208431475184 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:01 pm

An additional process as part of the process recipe. For example, changing color tags after export, adding keywords automatically, etc.
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Re: Capture One 12.0 wish list....?

Postby SFA » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:59 pm

NNN634523208431475184 wrote:Keywording is a trainwreck.



Would you care to describe how so?
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Re: Capture One 12.0 wish list....?

Postby John Doe » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:09 am

In the same way that we have Process Recipes, I'd like to see Import Recipes. Then I wouldn't have to constantly check that everything is set correctly when I import different types of pictures.
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Re: Capture One 12.0 wish list....?

Postby Dinarius » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:34 am

IanL wrote:
Dinarius wrote:1. I'm aware that Export Originals exports the files with no edits attached. But, I never mentioned Export Originals in any of my posts. I'm not clear why you are. I'm talking about Edit With..., a different animal entirely. Edit With... does export files to Helicon with edits attached.


Grant is just trying to find you a workaround I think

Dinarius wrote:2. You keep mentioning Affinity. I'm not clear why about this either.


Because he has experience with Affinity as an external editor

Dinarius wrote:I would simply like the Edit With... dialog amended to include .dng. That's all.

Then, whether exporting to Helicon, with or without Lens Corrections embedded, would be good or bad for a given stack of images could be easily established on a case by case basis.

I would simply like the option of a single, largely untouched, Helicon-rendered .dng file back in C1 for complete editing.

As I wrote above, I can do this already longhand. But, adding .dng to the "Edit With..." dialog is surely not rocket science.


I hear ya but I would like them to consider the bigger picture and make "Edit With..." do a little more that just adding .dng as a choice.

I would like to see the ability to launch external editors with multiple images opened as layers or as separate images (my choice) and I would like to see them opened with or without the existing edits from C1 (my choice). Basically since this is a 12.0 wish list I would like them to spend a little more time and consider the bigger pictured than just adding .dng support.

I suspect that is where Grant is coming from but I am sure he will correct that if need be :D


Ian,

Thanks for the input.

As I explained above, there is a simple workaround. Just convert files to .dng, run them through Helicon, then point C1 at the resulting .dng file.
Equally, convert files to .dng, open them in C1 to apply Lens Corrections. Then point Helicon at the folder, run it, and then reopen the resulting rendered file in C1.

I'm simply looking for a more direct, neater, workflow. Having .dng in the "Edit With..." dialog would solve this.

I think it's really good for brand image (pun very much intended) when software is seen to be compatible with a product with which it doesn't compete - think of all the plugins that Photoshop can host.

Helicon Focus is astonishing. PhaseOne shouldn't just be accommodating it within their software, they should be considering buying it! :wink:

Denis
Last edited by Dinarius on Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Capture One 12.0 wish list....?

Postby Ian3 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:32 pm

I'd like to be able to lock a variant so that it can't be adjusted further without unlocking. (Not a password, or anything, just a button to click or something). It would guard against inadvertently changing something on an image that was finished. Or am I the only one who does that sort of thing by mistake?

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Re: Capture One 12.0 wish list....?

Postby John Doe » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:41 pm

Ian3 wrote:I'd like to be able to lock a variant so that it can't be adjusted further without unlocking. (Not a password, or anything, just a button to click or something). It would guard against inadvertently changing something on an image that was finished. Or am I the only one who does that sort of thing by mistake?

Ian

You're not alone, this has been suggested before. :)
I think the best implementation would be a simple click to lock, but a warning when you click again to unlock. My opinion is that this would prevent accidental unlocking.
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Re: Capture One 12.0 wish list....?

Postby diver1 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:08 pm

the luminosity masks with ability to make selections similar to what we have with colors
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Re: Capture One 12.0 wish list....?

Postby IanL » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:07 pm

Dinarius wrote:As I explained above, there is a simple workaround. Just convert files to .dng, run them through Helicon, then point C1 at the resulting .dng file.
Equally, convert files to .dng, open them in C1 to apply Lens Corrections. Then point Helicon at the folder, run it, and then reopen the resulting rendered file in C1.


Sure, all I am saying is instead of coding just that do a bit more in v12 to make this work better with more external tools...

Dinarius wrote:I'm simply looking for a more direct, neater, workflow. Having .dng in the "Edit With..." dialog would solve this.

I think it's really good for brand image (pun very much intended) when software is seen to be compatible with a product with which it doesn't compete - think of all the plugins that Photoshop can host.


Roger that - good starting point for sure.

Dinarius wrote:Helicon Focus is astonishing. PhaseOne shouldn't just be accommodating it within their software, they should be considering buying it! :wink:


I love that idea too.
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Re: Capture One 12.0 wish list....?

Postby SFA » Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:34 pm

John Doe wrote:
Ian3 wrote:I'd like to be able to lock a variant so that it can't be adjusted further without unlocking. (Not a password, or anything, just a button to click or something). It would guard against inadvertently changing something on an image that was finished. Or am I the only one who does that sort of thing by mistake?

Ian

You're not alone, this has been suggested before. :)
I think the best implementation would be a simple click to lock, but a warning when you click again to unlock. My opinion is that this would prevent accidental unlocking.


I think this makes sense although in some ways "safeguards" of this type may lead people to pay less attention to what they are doing - and therefore perhaps assume that they have protected something when the haven't.

Apart from that risk this, or something very like it should be adequate.

However I suspect protection from inadvertent batch processing would also need to be considered and the controls logic for that, if it was to be sure to suit everyone, might require some discussion ...


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Re: Capture One 12.0 wish list....?

Postby Samoreen » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:15 pm

http://forum.phaseone.com/En/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=27463

On the feature request list since version 9. Absolutely no feedback and no effect. We'll see if this thread has more success...
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