Saving layers in a style

Discussions, questions, comments and suggestions regarding Capture One PRO, Capture One PRO(For Sony), Capture One DB and Capture One Express(For Sony) 11.x for Windows

Re: Saving layers in a style

Postby SFA » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:40 pm

WPNL wrote:
SFA wrote:
I'm not sure how you are thinking about what a style is here.

That makes two of us then ;-)

I would say when somebody is saving "layers in a style" a style is created with one or more layers, each with their purpose such as Sharpening, contrast, or whatever.
It might be convenient instead of repeating the creation of these layers on a multitude of images...


Hmm.

Well given that the change in approach to Layers has only just occurred with V11 I suspect it might be a good idea to make sure the basics work out in the wild before moving on to anything more complex.

Beyond that I'm really not sure that a "style" that involves multiple layers and varying masks would be all that useful in a library - unless you always shoot more or less the same things.

In that case would it not be easier to simply create a "master" image with multiple layers and then copy the results to all of the other images to which you want them to apply? That seems likely to give you the same result, complete with masks.

It has been available since Local Adjustments were introduced as far as I remember.

Or did you mean something else ?

Grant
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Re: Saving layers in a style

Postby WPNL » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:58 pm

SFA wrote:Well given that the change in approach to Layers has only just occurred with V11 I suspect it might be a good idea to make sure the basics work out in the wild before moving on to anything more complex.

It's not complex, unless you make it ;-)

SFA wrote:Beyond that I'm really not sure that a "style" that involves multiple layers and varying masks would be all that useful in a library - unless you always shoot more or less the same things.

It's not unreasonable to keep in mind some of us have repeating subjects and workflows
SFA wrote:In that case would it not be easier to simply create a "master" image with multiple layers and then copy the results to all of the other images to which you want them to apply? That seems likely to give you the same result, complete with masks.

That still would mean that one has to create the set of layers that apply to that job and then assign styles to those layers. While it all could be combined into one style. Imagine the potential of this when assigning this style on import.
I would be really surprised to be the only one seeing the advantage in this.

I for instance regularly create
a layer for sharpening with certain parameters on which I mask the areas that I want to use, same goes for
a layer for blurring with certain parameters
a layer for contrast/saturation with certain parameters

SFA wrote:It has been available since Local Adjustments were introduced as far as I remember.

I know, but it's still repetitive work that can be minimized I think
SFA wrote:Or did you mean something else ?

We're getting close I think :-)
... I hope I'm on the same path as the OP, if not, I apolgize and will leave it at this
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Re: Saving layers in a style

Postby WPNL » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:05 pm

SFA wrote:There might be a clue in the message showing in the Levels tool in your screen grab.

By the way, I got this popup by right clicking in the layers menu, NOT the styles menu in Levels.
R.C. > Save Settings as Style
Which gives the impression it's possible to save layers (and their) parameters as a style.
Image
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Re: Saving layers in a style

Postby SFA » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:53 am

WPNL wrote:
SFA wrote:There might be a clue in the message showing in the Levels tool in your screen grab.

By the way, I got this popup by right clicking in the layers menu, NOT the styles menu in Levels.
R.C. > Save Settings as Style
Which gives the impression it's possible to save layers (and their) parameters as a style.
Image


Save settings as a style is the same thing as you have from the "Background" level - just a way of saving a list of tools and their settings, with your own name for it, for re-use.

If you want the whole caboodle, masks and all, for a batch of shots, create the layer adjustment(s) complete with masks on the first image of a similar (or identical?) batch and copy and paste, for all selected matching images, in one go. That will give you all the tools, settings and masks in all the layers. No need to create a style unless you wish to keep the tools and setting info (but not the masks) for some future use.

I typically shoot outdoor action shots generating a lot of volume. I can often have a string off shots that, cloud and sun permitting, are quite similar but not identical. I can edit the first of the similar shots (working from the start is usually the best option) then copy the whole thing and apply it to the next shot, modify the mask slightly perhaps, sometime re-copy and past the new version to the next shot and so on. Or take a range of images where things are quite consistent and copy to all in one go.

Typically there will be some need to adjust masks because the subjects move and I move with them but it still proves better in most situations then creating afresh.

I have never had the option of using a Style until V11 so it has not been a necessity.


HTH.


Grant
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Re: Saving layers in a style

Postby WPNL » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:17 am

It's fine you're okay with that, but it doesn't have to be / stay that way.

I hope the developers agree with what I outlined and recognize the value of it so we'll see the option available someday.

Have a nice day..
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Re: Saving layers in a style

Postby Tonyh-s » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:06 am

SFA wrote:Do you mean to save the layer masking information as well?

Of to build a library of layers?

I'm not sure how you are thinking about what a style is here.


Yes. Let me give an actual example. On landscapes, I generally start off with a grad mask top and bottom to darken the top and bottom and 2 or three highlight spots to highlight certain areas of the photo to give it depth. All these are masks with adjustments applied to them. I then save them as a style and then can re apply the style to another photo and adjust the masks to suit that photo.

If I could do this then it would be worth my while upgrading to version 11. I really miss this feature from Lightroom.

Grant has given the best workaround, and for that I am grateful. I am going to try that and see how that works for me.
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Re: Saving layers in a style

Postby SFA » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:36 pm

Tonyh-s wrote:
SFA wrote:Do you mean to save the layer masking information as well?

Of to build a library of layers?

I'm not sure how you are thinking about what a style is here.


Yes. Let me give an actual example. On landscapes, I generally start off with a grad mask top and bottom to darken the top and bottom and 2 or three highlight spots to highlight certain areas of the photo to give it depth. All these are masks with adjustments applied to them. I then save them as a style and then can re apply the style to another photo and adjust the masks to suit that photo.

If I could do this then it would be worth my while upgrading to version 11. I really miss this feature from Lightroom.

Grant has given the best workaround, and for that I am grateful. I am going to try that and see how that works for me.


Tony,

I completely follow your rationale here with Landscapes. Apart from the style start point (not available) I would do much the same thing in earlier versions.

However, whilst I found it very useful for a sequence of images as I described above in other circumstances (non-sequential images of different subjects) it seems to me that recreating the masks - especially grads and spots, is at least as quick and possibly quicker than modifying what is there in many many cases - grads in particular once one has a feel for them.

Now that Styles can cover most of the other adjustments that are "general" for an image there may well be time savings available for that part especially if copy from a previous image if not the best solution for the one you are working on, but for the masks I am not so sure that the benefits would always be as beneficial as we might think they should be.

I attended the "What's new in V11" webinar this morning and there it was pointed out that, a considerable number of fundamental maths changes and subsequent recoding have had to be applied to V11 compared to V10 to accommodated the redeveloped Layers functionality. Just as one might expect.

In my view it is wise to release that and make sure it works usefully "in the wild" before adding extra complication - more challenging tools not currently supported and, perhaps, masks for example - and that seems to be the approach Phase have taken.

I would be interested to hear how you find things once you have had a chance to compare and contrast the processing options currently available for your work flow.


Grant
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Re: Saving layers in a style

Postby Tonyh-s » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:33 pm

Hi Grant,
I heard that this morning as well and can see why they are taking it slowly. As your method works on version 10, I will stick with that for a while, although the better masking is attractive in version 11. I hope to try your ideas next week and will report back.
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Re: Saving layers in a style

Postby SFA » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:14 pm

Tony,

The copy from one variant to another works in V11 just as in V9 (which is what I use to date).

Note the word "variant"

If you have an example image with one or more layers in an older version (at least when using sessions) you could create a NEW variant of it (NEW = no edits applied, therefore no layers) and will be automatically created with the V11 processing engine. Then copy your edits form the original variant and apply them to the new variant. See what you think.

As a second example, take that first variant again and CLONE off a new variant. That will create a copy of the first variant.

Now go to the Base Characterics tool and change the processing engine to V11 just for that newly cloned variant. That should give you all of the new mask refinement options within that variant.

HTH.


Grant
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Re: Saving layers in a style

Postby Tonyh-s » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:21 pm

Hi Grant, I tried the method of copying the masks from a master photo. As you said, it is just as quick to apply them as and when needed. I will stick with that.
Tony
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Re: Saving layers in a style

Postby SFA » Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:06 pm

Tonyh-s wrote:Hi Grant, I tried the method of copying the masks from a master photo. As you said, it is just as quick to apply them as and when needed. I will stick with that.
Tony


Hi Tony,

Good to hear that. I had wondered if I was missing something important from the toolbox!

Thanks for the feedback.


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