C1 11.1 After 'Edit with' roundtrip - Unable to rename file

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C1 11.1 After 'Edit with' roundtrip - Unable to rename file

Postby easycass » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:11 pm

Hi there, perhaps someone else can test this for me...

First, lets look at what I am trying to achieve. Once a file is edited in an external editor and returned to C1, I want to rename the file. So, lets look at how this works in C1... Scenario A: -

1. Take any file, lets take a raw NEF file, lets call it IMG-1234567-A.NEF.
2. Right click and use 'Edit with' to edit in an external app, like Affinity Photo.
3. This creates a TIFF file in the same directory, calling the file IMG-1234567-A.TIF.
4. This file is opened up successfully in Affinity Photo.
5. If you just do an Exit at this point, the file is not touched, and you are retruned to C1.
6. After being returned to C1, I can edit the filename of the TIFF to IMG-1234567-B.TIF.

That all looks fine.

Okay, now lets add some editing work and a save from the external editor, repeating the process... Scenario B: -

1. Take any file, lets take a raw NEF file, lets call it IMG-1234567-A.NEF.
2. Right click and use 'Edit with' to edit in an external app, like Affinity Photo.
3. This creates a TIFF file in the same directory, calling the file IMG-1234567-A.TIF.
4. This file is opened up successfully in Affinity Photo. Adjust something: lets add brightness and flatten the image.
5. Exit Affinity Photo, and it will ask to save, and you say yes.
6. After being returned to C1, the image thumbnail looks good, but... it is not possible to rename the file, as C1 says a 'process is still using the file'.

Now, that is not fine. Every image I 'Edit with' outside of C1, is impossible to rename or even delete once returned from the external editor. I have checked, and the only processes running at that point in time are associated with C1, so I doubt it is Affinity Photo holding onto the file. I have also tried this with three different external editors, with the same result.

To add weight to the likelhood of C1 being at fault, if I exit C1, and restart, it will release its hold of the images and I am then free to rename them.

Looks like a C1 bug to me. Anyone willing to have a go?

Many thanks... :?
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Re: C1 11.1 After 'Edit with' roundtrip - Unable to rename f

Postby easycass » Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:09 pm

So, I have investigated further, and it seems that in fact it is mostly exhibited when the program, like Affinity Photo, is saved 'on exit', and only for 16-bit tiffs. If one does a save action from the file menu from Affinity Photo, and then exit, then all seems to be okay. It is a weird one... And what's more, I now do not seem to have issue with other editing apps, so maybe just something weird between Affinity Photo and C1. A C1 bug or Affinity Photo? Not sure, but for now I can work around it... :shock:
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Re: C1 11.1 After 'Edit with' roundtrip - Unable to rename f

Postby PavelH » Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:09 am

Hi easycass,

I've repeated all your steps and cannot reproduce the bug. However, there is a difference from your description: In my case, CO saves TIFF without -A appendix to the filename, simply <filename>.TIFF. Just the next edit (starting from NEF again) results in <filename>_1.tiff

My SW versions: CO Pro 11.1, Affinity Photo 1.6.4.104

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Re: C1 11.1 After 'Edit with' roundtrip - Unable to rename f

Postby PavelH » Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:23 am

NN164078UL wrote: However, there is a difference from your description: In my case, CO saves TIFF without -A appendix to the filename, simply <filename>.TIFF. Just the next edit (starting from NEF again) results in <filename>_1.tiff

Sorry, I was not careful enough reading your text and did not note that the appendix appears already in your original filename. Just ignore my note quoted here.

Simply, in my case, everything works as expected.

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Re: C1 11.1 After 'Edit with' roundtrip - Unable to rename f

Postby easycass » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:59 am

Hi Pavel,

Okay, thank you so much for checking that out. I have another computer here, so I will also then install onto that and see if I see the issue or not. If not, an interesting one to resolve. One thought I have: Can you remember if you installed Capture One before or after installing Affinity?

Cheers,
Cass.
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Re: C1 11.1 After 'Edit with' roundtrip - Unable to rename f

Postby PavelH » Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:35 pm

easycass wrote: Can you remember if you installed Capture One before or after installing Affinity?

Hi Cass,
Using my memory and dates of folders and licenses, I've reconstructed the following time sequence:
1. 1st installation of Affinity
2. 1st installation of CO10
3. 1st installation of CO11
4. last update of Affinity
5. last update of CO11 (v. 11.1)

Not sure, whether it can help.
Regards,
Pavel
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Re: C1 11.1 After 'Edit with' roundtrip - Unable to rename f

Postby easycass » Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:03 pm

After further investigation, I thought I would summarise my findings in a formal way. As I am reporting a rather obscure error, it may be difficult to reproduce unless duplicating fairly exact conditions, so I will be specific.

System / Software
Operating System: Windows 10 Pro 64-Bit 1709 Build 16299.371
Hardware: Gigabyte 15X - i7-7700HQ / 16GB Ram / 1.5TB NVMe SSD / Nvidia GeForce GTX 1070 Max-Q GPU
Affinity Photo: v 1.6.4.104
Capture One Pro: v 11.1.0.140

Issue Description
Using Capture One (C1) 'Edit with' to edit an existing NEF raw file, a 16-Bit uncompressed TIF file is generated and saved in C1 and then sent to Affinity Photo (AP). Once this file is updated and saved within AP, the TIF file is successfully returned to C1. However, on trying to edit the filename in C1 immediately afterwards, C1 says that the file is locked by another process. This happens on all successive similar edits of NEF files. If one exits C1, and goes back to those files, they are no longer locked and can be renamed.

To Duplicate
1. In C1, select a file such as a raw NEF file named IMG-1234567.NEF.
2. In C1, right click the image thumbnail, and use 'Edit with' to edit in an external app, selecting Affinity Photo.
3. In C1, this creates a TIF file in the same directory, in this case naming the file IMG-1234567.TIF.
4. In AP, this TIF file is opened up. The image is simply adjusted (such as brightness or curves) and the image is flattened.
5. In AP, use 'Save' in the File menu (or Ctrl-S) and then Exit (you can alternatively just exit AP using the close window button and confirm saving changes to the file on exit).
6. In C1, after being returned from AP, the image thumbnail looks okay, updated and all looks fine.
7. In C1, however, it is not possible to RENAME the file, as C1 says the 'item is being used by another process'. Essentially the file is locked from file-based operations, unable to be renamed or deleted.

Investigation
1. This  occurs when a raw file is converted to a 16-bit TIF files that are uncompressed, using any ICC profile, 300 px/in. fixed 100% scaling, before being sent to AP. This problem does not occur when converting to and sending 8-bit TIF files, jpegs, PSD files or any other from C1 to AP.
2. It only seems to occur when raw files are converted to 16-bit TIF prior to sending. Editing an original jpeg or TIF file, where a 16-bit TIF is made and sent to AP does not produce any issue. 
3. I have tried out this problem on a similar hardware system, with the same operating system (Windows 10) freshly installed, and the same issue occurs. However, on a Windows 7 system, this issue does not occur.
4. Using SysInternals diagnostic software, I have ascertained that when the TIF file is returned from AP to C1, the process that has locked the image file is in fact C1 itself, as though it has stalled on some operation on the file once returned from AP, thus locking the file until the software is restarted.
5. Sometimes, when I have tried this, 10% of the time there is  no issue, but I cannot determine the reason for this variation.
6. Using 'Edit with' in C1 to call other editing software, such as Photoshop or OneOne PhotoRaw, using a 16-bit TIF is not an issue. Using software, such as Lightroom, to call AP is also not a problem. It is specifically when pairing C1 with AP, using a 16-bit TIF as the round-trip file format.
7. I have kindly had one other user try to duplicate the issue without success.

While I do not expect much of an outcome on this issue, I place it here for reference should the issue ever hit another user with similar hardware, operating system and software versions. In many cases, when people try to duplicate such an issue, one of the common reasons that the issue is not duplicated is due to some variable, environmental condition or procedural steps not being mirrored exactly - can be difficult to do. However, should anyone with this setup like to report back their own findings, I would certainly welcome the information.

Thank you,
Cass.
Last edited by easycass on Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: C1 11.1 After 'Edit with' roundtrip - Unable to rename f

Postby easycass » Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:10 pm

NN164078UL wrote:
easycass wrote: Can you remember if you installed Capture One before or after installing Affinity?

Hi Cass,
Using my memory and dates of folders and licenses, I've reconstructed the following time sequence:
1. 1st installation of Affinity
2. 1st installation of CO10
3. 1st installation of CO11
4. last update of Affinity
5. last update of CO11 (v. 11.1)

Not sure, whether it can help.
Regards,
Pavel


Thank you Pavel. I went ahead and did more tests on two other computers (as you can see in my latest write up). I was able to reproduce it on a Windows 10 setup but not on Windows 7. My installation is a completely fresh install of operating system and software, so straight to new versions of Affinity and C1. I went back to a bare OS system, and tried, but the same result. So obscure that it makes me quite intrigued! I am not hopeful for a fix at this stage, but you never know... Thanks again for your kind help...
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