Capture One Always overlays grain

Discussions, questions, comments and suggestions regarding Capture One PRO, Capture One PRO(For Sony), Capture One DB and Capture One Express(For Sony) 11.x for Mac

Re: Capture One Always overlays grain

Postby Fenjen » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:45 pm

SFA wrote:For some reason the link to the video just gives me a "This Video is not available" response.


Grant


Yeah sorry apparently it was set to private, while it should’ve been unlisted. You can watch the video now. I will contact tech support soon.
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Re: Capture One Always overlays grain

Postby C-M-B » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:06 pm

I was able to reproduce the same issue - the reason is the colour profile.

Using ROMM RGB (ISO 22028-2:2013) I get the exact same noise pattern and I'm unable to achieve true black. It gets down to 2 1 2 2.


Which colour profile are/were you using?

edit: funnily enough when using this profile and setting sharpening to 0, it looks like a uniform overlay of small dots - and when you scroll there are huge dots in the pre-rendered parts that disappear and form the small, pixel-sized dots.

I am not sure whether this is intended...
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Re: Capture One Always overlays grain

Postby C-M-B » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:43 pm

Could it be that Capture One fails to interpret the black level of certain color profiles and therefore "artificially" raises the actual black levels?

I can't even show the issue with a screen capture because on a screen capture (with the Nvidia Experience thing) ALL profiles deliver no true blacks.

My suspicion: the hardware acceleration for rendering the images is the culprit. I would like to verify that suspicion but I'm actually unable to turn off hardware acceleration. It still uses my graphics card (according to the task manager) even after turning HA off in the preferences menu.
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Re: Capture One Always overlays grain

Postby Class A » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:22 am

Have you tried activating "Proof" mode or exporting to a file?

It would be interesting to determine whether this is a previewing issue only.
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Re: Capture One Always overlays grain

Postby C-M-B » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:06 pm

Proof mode doesn't change anything - the exported file does not have those strange dots but there's no true black either...

Could you try to replicate it?

http://www.color.org/chardata/rgb/rommrgb.xalter

This is where I got my ROMM RGB.icc from

edit: after some digging this seems to be a modified ProPhoto profile for printers - I would really love hear from Fenjen whether he too used a special profile or something common like Adobe RGB.
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Re: Capture One Always overlays grain

Postby Bobtographer » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:56 pm

Looks like digital noise caused by shooting at ISO6400? - ISO100 gives the same noise, but not as defined, i'm guessing C1 looks at the ISO of the file and replicates it in the darkened areas? I've not played with noise reduction. Just my theory.
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Re: Capture One Always overlays grain

Postby Fenjen » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:05 pm

Sorry I've been a bit preoccupied lately. I will try to reply soon!
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Re: Capture One Always overlays grain

Postby gusferlizi » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:43 pm

Duuude!!!

I can't believe I didn't see this before!

Default windows sRGB does the same.
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Re: Capture One Always overlays grain

Postby C-M-B » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:30 pm

@Fenjen still busy I assume :lol:
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Re: Capture One Always overlays grain

Postby Fenjen » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:01 am

C-M-B wrote:Proof mode doesn't change anything - the exported file does not have those strange dots but there's no true black either...

Could you try to replicate it?

http://www.color.org/chardata/rgb/rommrgb.xalter

This is where I got my ROMM RGB.icc from

edit: after some digging this seems to be a modified ProPhoto profile for printers - I would really love hear from Fenjen whether he too used a special profile or something common like Adobe RGB.


I use the normal SRGB profile. I tried it with different profiles though and proofing off but nothing changed as you mentioned too.
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Re: Capture One Always overlays grain

Postby Fenjen » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:03 am

Bobtographer wrote:Looks like digital noise caused by shooting at ISO6400? - ISO100 gives the same noise, but not as defined, i'm guessing C1 looks at the ISO of the file and replicates it in the darkened areas? I've not played with noise reduction. Just my theory.


This is probably because the noise intensity setting in Capture one automatically defaults to 25 for iso 6400 images. If you turn it to zero slowly you will notice the noise getting less but even at 0 it is still overplayed in purely black parts of an image. With it set to zero I see just the same behavior as with any iso.
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Re: Capture One Always overlays grain

Postby Fenjen » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:05 am

gusferlizi wrote:Duuude!!!

I can't believe I didn't see this before!

Default windows sRGB does the same.


Yeah it’s weird right? I started noticing it in high iso images after I noticed I could never get the blacks black. I assumed it to be caused by the actual noise of camera at first so it never struck me as weird until I started looking into it.
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Re: Capture One Always overlays grain

Postby Fenjen » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:07 am

C-M-B wrote:@Fenjen still busy I assume :lol:


Sorry I have some exams and stuff soon so photography has to take a backseat for a while :(
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Re: Capture One Always overlays grain

Postby C-M-B » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:44 am

Fenjen, thanks for replying!

Did you try it without the hardware acceleration?

And another question that may sound a bit weird: how is your display connected? HDMI? DisplayPort? DVI?

As this also occurs with every profile when I make a screen capture I think it may be related to certain hardware/output conditions as well.
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Re: Capture One Always overlays grain

Postby Fenjen » Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:22 am

C-M-B wrote:Fenjen, thanks for replying!

Did you try it without the hardware acceleration?

And another question that may sound a bit weird: how is your display connected? HDMI? DisplayPort? DVI?

As this also occurs with every profile when I make a screen capture I think it may be related to certain hardware/output conditions as well.


Yeah I tried it without on your request but it didn't change anything. I'm using HDMI for my display.

I don't believe those things can impact this though as the grain is just baked into the jpeg, things like hardware acceleration or cables don't change the algorithm with which the jpeg is created.
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