C1 with large number of files still unusable

Discussions, questions, comments and suggestions regarding Capture One PRO, Capture One PRO(For Sony), Capture One DB and Capture One Express(For Sony) 11.x for Mac

Re: C1 with large number of files still unusable

Postby BerndInBerlin » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:21 pm

Very interesting insights here from other people.
I conclude from my and other experiences: Great RAW converter, unreliable DAM functions.
There seem to be memory leak problems up to this day. I just managed to crash my entire computer by just trying to export 5 files from an older and rather large catalogue. Something I have not managed to do with any other app on my mac lately.

Please please Phase One - if anybody reads this: Stop adding fancy new features and fix the ones that you have already. I am no fan of the subscription model of Adobe and really got to like C1 over time but it is just not reliable enough for my work at present.
And make sure you have new releases properly tested before you release them into the wild. Some of us use this software for work and our livelihood depends on it.
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Re: C1 with large number of files still unusable

Postby PhaseoneUser84343 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:45 pm

Another voice of frustration. I have a 45000 image catalog I brought over from LR. C1 is unstable to the point of unusable for a catalog this size (I'm using a MacPro with 64GB or RAM).

Looks like PhotoMechanic is the way to go before bringing in a subset to C1. Really crappy arrangement if you ask me. Maybe just back to LR. I'd really like to use C1... I've paid for it. But if I cannot rely on its file management then I might as well stay with LR and PS.

If it can't manage files with speed and reliability then the rest of the features don't matter.
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Re: C1 with large number of files still unusable

Postby Emile » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:33 pm

Ditto the ditto. I prefer C1 and it worked well enough when I shot corporate events and weddings and could use relatively small sessions per event, but I've changed tack in my photography, don't do events anymore, and the DAM side of C1 lacks the performance to continue with it. These complaints are not new. I'm afraid I've started a subscription with the other side.
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Re: C1 with large number of files still unusable

Postby BerndInBerlin » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:51 pm

Phase One has listened!
Today I received the email announcing 11.1. The site promised improved speed with large numbers of files. And they delivered. Just for fun I created a new catalogue with the 25000 files of a former job and it was done in a normal and timely fashion.
Congrats Phase One.
Now the question remains: Why did you release the earlier buggy version that caused so much headache for professionals in the first place. Still a great piece of software now please just improve your quality control.
At last happy again with Capture One. Further testing will follow.
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Re: C1 with large number of files still unusable

Postby Emile » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:40 pm

BerndInBerlin wrote:Phase One has listened!
Today I received the email announcing 11.1. The site promised improved speed with large numbers of files. And they delivered. Just for fun I created a new catalogue with the 25000 files of a former job and it was done in a normal and timely fashion.
Congrats Phase One.
Now the question remains: Why did you release the earlier buggy version that caused so much headache for professionals in the first place. Still a great piece of software now please just improve your quality control.
At last happy again with Capture One. Further testing will follow.


Please let us know how you fare. Is the catalog working as quickly as LR with filters etc? Or is it just the import process that doesn't stall anymore after several thousand images?
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Re: C1 with large number of files still unusable

Postby BerndInBerlin » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:38 pm

Please let us know how you fare. Is the catalog working as quickly as LR with filters etc? Or is it just the import process that doesn't stall anymore after several thousand images?


Unfortunately it seems to be the import only that has been fixed. Which is a big step though.
Capture One is unable to produce Previews during that process - at least not with that speed.
Choosing "All images" and scrolling and trying to use filters and possibly viewing one file in the viewer at the same time is not possible.
Right now I am starring at the rotating beachball on my Mac once again whilst Capture One is grinding to a halt.
It seems like I have to wait about 20hrs before I can have Previews of all my files. But toggling between one folder and than back to "All Images" lets me view all the image previews without activities announcing 15 hrs of wait time. Unfortunately now all I get in my viewer window is a highly pixelated image in super low res. And no change after a minute.
Restarting Capture One helps but now I have to wait again for the app to build previews.
So it still seems buggy and extremely sluggish to me.
Still some work to be done. Maybe with 11.2 or 11.something we will get a properly working version. To answer your question: No - we are nowhere near the full speed of Lightroom with large amounts of files.
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Re: C1 with large number of files still unusable

Postby Emile » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:04 pm

Thanks, Bernd, for your elaborate reply. I'll not jump fully back in at this point in time then.
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Re: C1 with large number of files still unusable

Postby tenmangu81 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:06 am

@Bernd:

I am very surprised with the slugginess you encounter with Capture One v11....
With my version, on my computer (MBP Retina 15" early 2014, 16 Go RAM, nvidia GT 750 2 Go), it takes about 3 seconds to display all images (about 18,000) and a request through the filters takes about 1 second.
I suggest you to put a case at the Phase One staff, if not already done.
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Re: C1 with large number of files still unusable

Postby fatihayoglu » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:29 am

I guess @Bernd has an isolated problem as I don’t have any issue with the V11 at all with 20k images in the catalogue plus my catalogue is referenced and managed. CO requires a good system plus I personally think it is not fair to expect the system will try to import 25k images and simultaneously show you all the previews and let you play with filters. Sometimes I import full 128GB full SD card images from my D750 and it doesn’t take more than an hour to get all the previews and everything. Meanwhile the system is still operational with other already imported images.
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Re: C1 with large number of files still unusable

Postby Emile » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:58 pm

tenmangu81 wrote:@Bernd:

I am very surprised with the slugginess you encounter with Capture One v11....
With my version, on my computer (MBP Retina 15" early 2014, 16 Go RAM, nvidia GT 750 2 Go), it takes about 3 seconds to display all images (about 18,000) and a request through the filters takes about 1 second.
I suggest you to put a case at the Phase One staff, if not already done.


My 2017 MBP, equipped to the max, is way more sluggish than you describe with a catalog of 20.000 images. Importing those images in 11.0 was only possible in small batches as the program would grind to a halt if I tried to import more than roughly 7000 images (if I remember correctly). My previous MBP displayed the same problems but I could put the blame on the older internals - even though the main competitor had no problems with it.

I’m happy that this problem isn’t omnipresent and that it works for possibly a lot of people. But I t’s not isolated either, unfortunately.
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Re: C1 with large number of files still unusable

Postby tenmangu81 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:50 pm

Hi Emile,

There are two different issues:
- the import
- the catalog management

I haven't tried yet the import of thousands of images with the new 11.1 release, but Phase One says it works much better, and I understand it's not really the case. Actually, I never need to import thousands (or even hundreds) of pictures at a time, and I can't help you.
What I say is that the catalog works far better since version 11 (display of all images and filter requests).
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Re: C1 with large number of files still unusable

Postby Emile » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:56 pm

tenmangu81 wrote:Hi Emile,

There are two different issues:
- the import
- the catalog management

I haven't tried yet the import of thousands of images with the new 11.1 release, but Phase One says it works much better, and I understand it's not really the case. Actually, I never need to import thousands (or even hundreds) of pictures at a time, and I can't help you.
What I say is that the catalog works far better since version 11 (display of all images and filter requests).


Good to know, thanks! That at least sounds hopeful!

Have a great weekend everyone,
Emile
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Re: C1 with large number of files still unusable

Postby BerndInBerlin » Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:50 am

fatihayoglu wrote:I guess @Bernd has an isolated problem as I don’t have any issue with the V11 at all with 20k images in the catalogue plus my catalogue is referenced and managed. CO requires a good system plus I personally think it is not fair to expect the system will try to import 25k images and simultaneously show you all the previews and let you play with filters. Sometimes I import full 128GB full SD card images from my D750 and it doesn’t take more than an hour to get all the previews and everything. Meanwhile the system is still operational with other already imported images.



Didn't make myself perfectly clear I guess.
The import was done already. Took about an hour which I consider ok for the amount of files. I opted for another folder to display whilst I was importing to make sure it wouldn't build all previews as this would take much much longer.

Someone else mentioned that I need a good system.
I am running a fairly old but still very powerful MacPro 5.1. with a 6core 3.33 GHZ with 32GB and a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 TI with 6GB RAM as a GPU. I consider this a pretty powerful Mac system.

And as mentioned many times before: All seems fine with smaller amounts of images. Unfortunately my job sometimes requires working with very large numbers of files.
And what bothers me the most: The Adobe competitor proves that working with large numbers of images is possible on my system.

I am sure there are a lot of people who are happy with Capture One as it is (I am most of the times as well for "smaller" projects) but others wo like me sometimes produce 25000 or more files within a week will understand my frustration.
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Re: C1 with large number of files still unusable

Postby Harry25 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:49 am

BerndInBerlin wrote:
fatihayoglu wrote:I guess @Bernd has an isolated problem as I don’t have any issue with the V11 at all with 20k images in the catalogue plus my catalogue is referenced and managed. CO requires a good system plus I personally think it is not fair to expect the system will try to import 25k images and simultaneously show you all the previews and let you play with filters. Sometimes I import full 128GB full SD card images from my D750 and it doesn’t take more than an hour to get all the previews and everything. Meanwhile the system is still operational with other already imported images.



Didn't make myself perfectly clear I guess.
The import was done already. Took about an hour which I consider ok for the amount of files. I opted for another folder to display whilst I was importing to make sure it wouldn't build all previews as this would take much much longer.

Someone else mentioned that I need a good system.
I am running a fairly old but still very powerful MacPro 5.1. with a 6core 3.33 GHZ with 32GB and a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 TI with 6GB RAM as a GPU. I consider this a pretty powerful Mac system.

And as mentioned many times before: All seems fine with smaller amounts of images. Unfortunately my job sometimes requires working with very large numbers of files.
And what bothers me the most: The Adobe competitor proves that working with large numbers of images is possible on my system.

I am sure there are a lot of people who are happy with Capture One as it is (I am most of the times as well for "smaller" projects) but others wo like me sometimes produce 25000 or more files within a week will understand my frustration.

Which Lightroom are you talking about ?
Classic or the new CC ?
I’ve been toying with the latest version of both during the past week with about 22K images,
and my experience is exactly the opposite.
If you’re talking about CC, yes there is an significantly different user experience, but it so dumbed down I don’t think the comparison has much meaning.
Lightroom classic in the other hand is even worse than C1: building standard previews while importing, not only made the software basically unusable for about a day, but also didn’t allow me to use the computer for anything else, as it was indiscriminately eating up all the resources.
After that was finished, I turned on face detection: this has been running for a couple of days now and seems to be at 60%, and my computer is still quite unusable.
I have the latest, fully loaded MacBook Pro.

I’ve been very frustrated with the lack of any progress on the DAM features of C1 ( as PhaseOne doesn’t seem to give a damn), and was investigating some of the other available options, and once again got very disappointed ( you can get cloud, faces, places and good DAM features only if you’re willing to sacrifice raw quality it seems) - but all this is another story....
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Re: C1 with large number of files still unusable

Postby BerndInBerlin » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:56 am

Which Lightroom are you talking about ?
Classic or the new CC ?
I’ve been toying with the latest version of both during the past week with about 22K images,
and my experience is exactly the opposite.
If you’re talking about CC, yes there is an significantly different user experience, but it so dumbed down I don’t think the comparison has much meaning.
Lightroom classic in the other hand is even worse than C1: building standard previews while importing, not only made the software basically unusable for about a day, but also didn’t allow me to use the computer for anything else, as it was indiscriminately eating up all the resources.
After that was finished, I turned on face detection: this has been running for a couple of days now and seems to be at 60%, and my computer is still quite unusable.
I have the latest, fully loaded MacBook Pro.

I’ve been very frustrated with the lack of any progress on the DAM features of C1 ( as PhaseOne doesn’t seem to give a damn), and was investigating some of the other available options, and once again got very disappointed ( you can get cloud, faces, places and good DAM features only if you’re willing to sacrifice raw quality it seems) - but all this is another story....



Sorry for not being specific.
Lightroom Classic CC Release 7.3 Camera Raw 10.3

I had not used LR in a while before this release as I have been pretty dedicated to Capture so I can't tell in which version Adobe finally improved the speed but it was only very recent.
Lightroom CC I haven't even tested as it is of no interest to me and certainly makes no sense with the amount of data I have to move around on jobs.
And if I remember correctly: I tried face recognition once. It is not really of any interest to me and my work and seems to need a massive amount of precessing power. I consider it a nice gimmick that is only in the way in professional use (maybe wedding photographers have a different opinion?).

It might be interesting to share what files we are using.
I recently switched from Canon 5D Mark IIIs to Sony A9s. I am processing uncompressed Sony Raw files.

For some time I had used for some productions Fuji X-T2s. And Fuji was part of the reason I stuck with Capture as Lightroom not only produces inferior images but seems to have a major problem rendering these files. It takes for ever and everything becomes unresponsive.

With the latest version of Lightroom and the Sony A9 files I witnessed the described behaviour. Lightroom handles imports (and creating previews) much much faster than Capture One and seems overall less buggy and sluggish. And I am using together with my digital operator multiple Computers. The portable devices are Macbooks with the highes specs from 2016. And I come to the same conclusion on all our machines.
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