Phantom Keywords Will Not Stay Deleted

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Phantom Keywords Will Not Stay Deleted

Postby Seymour Heiney » Fri May 19, 2017 2:45 am

Hello all. I'm a new non-professional user to Capture One 10.1, coming over from Lightroom 5.7.1. After hearing of difficulties some C1 users have importing Lightroom catalogs to C1 catalogs, I decided to take the long road and freshly import my referenced photos one year at a time into a "family_catalog". While certainly an ambitious - and some might say arduous - endeavor, I only have about 11k photos to deal with, and I view it as an opportunity to spend some nights when I can't sleep revisiting old family photos while I apply new keywords.

Anyway, let me get to my question. As I was doing my homework on importing pics with C1, I found that it appeared it was best to delete any keywords that had already been embedded in the IPTC or XMP metadata of the photos. So before importing the referenced photos to C1, I deleted all the keywords in those sections of the image file. I then imported them to C1. To my amazement, I now find that some of the keywords and even their hierarchies are now showing up in the Metadata tab. They do not appear to be associated with any photos, and indeed, in the C1 filters, these keywords do not appear as a choice or any "photo count" next to them.

In the Metadata tab, C1 allows me to delete the keywords, child and parents, the entire hierarchies, but when I close and reopen C1, they return and are visible in the Metadata tab again.

I'm baffled as to how C1 even knows about these keywords since I deleted them from the IPTC and XMP data, but even more troubled that they keep reappearing when they are apparently deleted from the Metadata tab window.

Has anyone experienced this and/or found a solution?

Thanks for reading...

Jim.
Seymour Heiney
 
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Re: Phantom Keywords Will Not Stay Deleted

Postby Peter Wijn » Fri May 19, 2017 10:04 am

I have experienced that wrong metadata saved in files, and removed later can pop-up again in a different software.
In my case written in iView Media (upon which Capture One database is built), and read in Lightroom and in Photo Supreme.

I tried to remove the metadata several ways, like with capture NX2 (Nikon files). I didn't make a job of it thought. Just remained surprised.

(I have not tried Capture One database yet, because I am very content with IDimager Photo Supreme.)

I guess it is something within the files?
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Re: Phantom Keywords Will Not Stay Deleted

Postby SFA » Fri May 19, 2017 5:31 pm

Have you checked for a User Keyword library?

user>appdata>local>captureone>keywordlibraries

Anything there?


Grant
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Re: Phantom Keywords Will Not Stay Deleted

Postby Seymour Heiney » Sat May 20, 2017 12:26 am

Grant, the KeywordLibraries folder is there, but its empty. Still no resolution.

I guess I could start over with a new catalog, but until I know why this is happening, it likely will just occur again. Of the 200 or so photos I've imported thus far (all old jpegs from over 10 years ago), I looked at every one of them manually via Exif Pilot and deleted the IPTC and XMP data from the files, just to avoid this exact situation. I don't have any customer keyword list built, and these keywords, which I recognize as the ones I used in Lightroom, just keep show back up. I'm not even sure what photo(s) are the ones causing this (if indeed an image file is the culprit at all) because there is no evidence attached to any files when viewing them in Exif Pilot, Capture One or Bridge. I even removed them all from the catalog and reimported...no love. I'm not sure what the connection is here, but obviously something is amiss. I guess its time to open a ticket with C1 support.

While I'd like to use C1 exclusively, as a photo editor AND a DAM (after all I don't have that many pics), if the keywording is that buggy, I may have to just use it as an editor and export to LR for management.

Jim
Seymour Heiney
 
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Re: Phantom Keywords Will Not Stay Deleted

Postby SFA » Sat May 20, 2017 2:55 am

Do you have any XMP Sync activity going on anywhere?

There are many posts here about this situation often related to LR imports it seems. And catalogues.

More so for older versions though.

Some have found solutions.

I'm normally a sessions user and stopped using LR many years ago in favour of something else well before I tried C1 so these problems are not something I have experienced personally. Finding the posts in the forum will likely give you better insights related to your own experience than I can offer relating things second hand (having covered the basics ....).

A Support Case would also make sense.


Grant
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Re: Phantom Keywords Will Not Stay Deleted

Postby Seymour Heiney » Sat May 20, 2017 10:38 pm

Grant, no sync activity going on that I am aware of. In fact, the computer I had LR installed on, and where the LR catalog resided, bit the dust about a month ago, and neither LR or the LR catalog have been loaded on the computer I am now using. Only C1 is installed. My photos have always been referenced, but I actually did some folder renaming and moved the hierarchy to a new passbook external before C1 knew anything about them. So I'm pretty sure there is no longer any LR "sync" type issues here. Yet obviously LR has some type of influence or embedded something in the image files that I cannot see using EXIF tools. I'm going to try a few things, then open a support ticket. If I could narrow it down to the "offending" photo(s), I might have a chance to uncover a solution.

Jim
Seymour Heiney
 
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Re: Phantom Keywords Will Not Stay Deleted

Postby SFA » Sun May 21, 2017 12:39 pm

Jim,

It certainly very odd.

Some random thoughts.

C1 tries to be helpful by making previously used keywords available and to some extend, at the catalogue and session level, it seems to do some harvesting on the fly.

Not sure where that might turn up but I wonder if one of the log files might have some related entries.

Also I wonder about hidden files that might be keyword catalogues but invisible to the user if not the system.

Finally, as might apply in a session structure, whether the Cache folder that stores thumbnails and preview files could be a source for the words.Or even some deleted image files that you will not see unless heading into the system trash and so on.

All rather vague I'm afraid but it does sound like you have any other possibilities already covered by your approach to the problem.

Grant
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