The Curious Case of Subscription Price Increase

Discussions, questions, comments and suggestions regarding Capture One PRO, Capture One PRO(For Sony), Capture One DB and Capture One Express(For Sony) 9.x

Re: The Curious Case of Subscription Price Increase

Postby Paul Lindqvist » Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:37 am

lewisl wrote: So, why bother commenting at all? There is a window of opportunity for Phase One to significantly expand Capture One sales. Strictly opinion: they might not be making the most of the opportunity.


So all this complaining is really about wanting to help PO making the most of the "opportunity" ? :lol:

I certainly can understand people commenting discussing bugs, features, compatibility of C1Pro, but people who whine about the price is for me people who have to much time on their hands.
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Re: The Curious Case of Subscription Price Increase

Postby jonduenas » Tue Apr 19, 2016 11:22 pm

This whole "subscription vs. perpetual license" debate has me really confused. I'm brand new to Capture One and I'm debating how I'll proceed once my trial is up. In another forum, I asked this very question, and most people described how much cheaper it was to do the subscription rather than the full purchase + upgrades. One person commented "I've had version 7, 8, and now 9 using the subscription model since December of 2014 and I'm at $160 for C1 expenses total. If I had purchased version 7 upgraded to 8 and then 9, I'd be at $500 in the same amount of time." And yet, everyone on here seems to be describing the exact opposite, that the $15/month with no upgrade fees is way more expensive. Can anyone describe their reasoning why this is the case? Is Capture One updated as frequently as the other forum commenter described in his comment? If so, it seems like a no-brainer to go with the subscription, really.
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Re: The Curious Case of Subscription Price Increase

Postby Wesley » Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:11 am

jonduenas wrote:This whole "subscription vs. perpetual license" debate has me really confused. I'm brand new to Capture One and I'm debating how I'll proceed once my trial is up. In another forum, I asked this very question, and most people described how much cheaper it was to do the subscription rather than the full purchase + upgrades. One person commented "I've had version 7, 8, and now 9 using the subscription model since December of 2014 and I'm at $160 for C1 expenses total. If I had purchased version 7 upgraded to 8 and then 9, I'd be at $500 in the same amount of time." And yet, everyone on here seems to be describing the exact opposite, that the $15/month with no upgrade fees is way more expensive. Can anyone describe their reasoning why this is the case? Is Capture One updated as frequently as the other forum commenter described in his comment? If so, it seems like a no-brainer to go with the subscription, really.


Subscription is cheaper if you're only going to use it for 2.75 years or less.
If you're a working photographer, just buy it outright.

"I've had version 7, 8, and now 9 using the subscription model since December of 2014 and I'm at $160 for C1 expenses total. If I had purchased version 7 upgraded to 8 and then 9, I'd be at $500 in the same amount of time."
This person didn't count in their outright purchase of 7 + $160. So $460 vs $500?

7 -> 8 was two years and 8 -> 9 was one.
Save to say every 1-2 years is when major version comes out.

That particular person shouldn't have gone subscription. If new version came out in 12 months (example):
$460 + $180 ($15 x 12) = $640
vs
$500 + $100 = $600

Or 24 months later:
$820
vs
$700
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Re: The Curious Case of Subscription Price Increase

Postby lewisl » Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:20 pm

@Paul:

It is a fundamental issue. Response occasionally has impact.
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Re: The Curious Case of Subscription Price Increase

Postby Paul Lindqvist » Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:12 am

lewisl wrote:@Paul:

It is a fundamental issue. Response occasionally has impact.


Nope it's not, its very simple don't want to subscribe or pay box price you simply don't.

Coming onto the forum and whining about it, is childish to say the least.
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Re: The Curious Case of Subscription Price Increase

Postby jonduenas » Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:36 pm

Wesley wrote:
jonduenas wrote:This whole "subscription vs. perpetual license" debate has me really confused. I'm brand new to Capture One and I'm debating how I'll proceed once my trial is up. In another forum, I asked this very question, and most people described how much cheaper it was to do the subscription rather than the full purchase + upgrades. One person commented "I've had version 7, 8, and now 9 using the subscription model since December of 2014 and I'm at $160 for C1 expenses total. If I had purchased version 7 upgraded to 8 and then 9, I'd be at $500 in the same amount of time." And yet, everyone on here seems to be describing the exact opposite, that the $15/month with no upgrade fees is way more expensive. Can anyone describe their reasoning why this is the case? Is Capture One updated as frequently as the other forum commenter described in his comment? If so, it seems like a no-brainer to go with the subscription, really.


Subscription is cheaper if you're only going to use it for 2.75 years or less.
If you're a working photographer, just buy it outright.

"I've had version 7, 8, and now 9 using the subscription model since December of 2014 and I'm at $160 for C1 expenses total. If I had purchased version 7 upgraded to 8 and then 9, I'd be at $500 in the same amount of time."
This person didn't count in their outright purchase of 7 + $160. So $460 vs $500?

7 -> 8 was two years and 8 -> 9 was one.
Save to say every 1-2 years is when major version comes out.

That particular person shouldn't have gone subscription. If new version came out in 12 months (example):
$460 + $180 ($15 x 12) = $640
vs
$500 + $100 = $600

Or 24 months later:
$820
vs
$700


I think I figured it out. In my calculations I only really ever looked at a year or two. But you're right with that 3rd year being where things change, since $180/year subscription vs. $100/year upgrades, the initial larger purchase ends up making sense in the long run (and that's being generous with a yearly major update, since it seems that's not always a given, and the outright purchase is even better then). Thanks for clarifying my confusion!
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Re: The Curious Case of Subscription Price Increase

Postby lewisl » Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:35 am

Wow, Paul. You seem bothered.

I don't pay the subscription. Today that is a choice. The problem is when it won't be a choice.

You don't like this discussion: simple--don't comment.
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Re: The Curious Case of Subscription Price Increase

Postby photoGrant » Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:42 pm

lewisl wrote:Wow, Paul. You seem bothered.

I don't pay the subscription. Today that is a choice. The problem is when it won't be a choice.

You don't like this discussion: simple--don't comment.


Ah, you bit! Don't bite. It's embarrassing enough that he can't see past his own hypocrisy. Whining about someone whining :lol:
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Re: The Curious Case of Subscription Price Increase

Postby Keith Reeder » Sat Apr 30, 2016 5:29 pm

photoGrant wrote:Ah, you bit! Don't bite. It's embarrassing enough that he can't see past his own hypocrisy. Whining about someone whining :lol:

Doesn't stop him from being absolutely right, though - and there's nothing hypocritical about pointing out petulant, pointless, petty whining when it's smeared all across the forum.

As far as I'm aware, Phase One isn't a charity, and it doesn't want to be your friend: it exists solely to make money, not to make you happy.

You don't like how it has decided to do that? You admit in your first post there was a lot about this you should have known: so how about taking some personal responsibility for your decisions instead of bleating about Phase One's "sneaky" pricing structure?

I should have known this because it was written in small type when I initially signed up.

Yes, you really should. Or is Phase One supposed to hold your hand and read the small print to you until it sinks in?

The point of the subscription model isn't rocket science - Mike even spelled it out, three posts in:

for companies that find they do not have a constant and continual need for the software as they can purchase the subscription and, at the end of the period, discontinue it

Nobody held a gun to your head - even now - so if you're so bent out of shape, walk away. And stop looking to blame someone - anyone - else for your carelessness in not applying due diligence when you first signed up.
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Re: The Curious Case of Subscription Price Increase

Postby Keith Reeder » Sat Apr 30, 2016 5:32 pm

lewisl wrote: So, why bother commenting at all?

You don't get to decide who posts on here, Lewis - those of us who disagree with you are just as entitled to comment as those who share your narrow view.
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Re: The Curious Case of Subscription Price Increase

Postby Keith Reeder » Sat Apr 30, 2016 5:34 pm

lewisl wrote:You don't like this discussion: simple--don't comment.

If there wasn't a difference of opinion, it'd hardly be a "discussion".

You need to accept the idea that we don't have to agree with you and Grant in order to be able to comment. OK?
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Re: The Curious Case of Subscription Price Increase

Postby lewisl » Sat Apr 30, 2016 11:52 pm

That's cool.

But, Paul simply calls a difference of opinion "whining". That's hardly acknowledging that there is a discussion to be had.

Many vendors are shifting to time period payments (that's a neutral characterization). Some offer some kind of service delivered over time. Some have just changed to time-based pricing with no incremental value. Users are concerned (even if the concern might be futile). Some customers consider the time-based payments flexibility, if there is a choice of perpetual or time-based licensing. Some customers appreciate the value in the additional services. Some customers see an inevitable price increase.

We all have a choice to "vote with our feet" and buy or not buy. Both are legitimate points of view. Expressing a point of view is legitimate. "You are just whining so drop the discussion" is not really a point of view, which elicited my reply to Paul.
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STAY AWAY FROM CAPTURE ONE! VOTE WITH YOUR FEET.

Postby netchaplain » Mon May 02, 2016 9:29 pm

I am voting with my feet after receiving an APPALLING RESPONSE after TWO corrupted database failures in three days costing me 19 hours of editing time and the LOSS OF ALL EDITS.

I am waiting for a response to stop my monthly subscription, but am not hopeful. It appears so far, the company lacks ethical standards for dealing with problems. They say they don't offer refunds for issued licenses.

There is evidently a KNOWN UNRESOLVED DATABASE BUG that has plagued this product for at least 3 years and they DO NOT KNOW HOW TO FIX IT. They evidently need customer databases to fail so they have lab rats to work with (us), that can be discarded after they fix only future databases--to heck with existing customers! Perhaps they should hire some competent people?

More to come...
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Re: The Curious Case of Subscription Price Increase

Postby Paul Lindqvist » Wed May 04, 2016 10:47 am

lewisl wrote:Wow, Paul. You seem bothered.

I don't pay the subscription. Today that is a choice. The problem is when it won't be a choice.

You don't like this discussion: simple--don't comment.

Not at all I'm actually quite amused by people who have the time to whine and cry about pocket change or hypothetical future payment plans.

Keep at it Lewis if that makes you happy.
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Re: The Curious Case of Subscription Price Increase

Postby photoGrant » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:06 pm

Keith Reeder wrote:
photoGrant wrote:Ah, you bit! Don't bite. It's embarrassing enough that he can't see past his own hypocrisy. Whining about someone whining :lol:

Doesn't stop him from being absolutely right, though - and there's nothing hypocritical about pointing out petulant, pointless, petty whining when it's smeared all across the forum.

As far as I'm aware, Phase One isn't a charity, and it doesn't want to be your friend: it exists solely to make money, not to make you happy.

You don't like how it has decided to do that? You admit in your first post there was a lot about this you should have known: so how about taking some personal responsibility for your decisions instead of bleating about Phase One's "sneaky" pricing structure?

I should have known this because it was written in small type when I initially signed up.

Yes, you really should. Or is Phase One supposed to hold your hand and read the small print to you until it sinks in?

The point of the subscription model isn't rocket science - Mike even spelled it out, three posts in:

for companies that find they do not have a constant and continual need for the software as they can purchase the subscription and, at the end of the period, discontinue it

Nobody held a gun to your head - even now - so if you're so bent out of shape, walk away. And stop looking to blame someone - anyone - else for your carelessness in not applying due diligence when you first signed up.


Sorry to do this to you, Keith.

What I didn’t realise from the small print of the contract with Mozy was that, in the event of a computer upgrade, there’s an assumption that all of the data uploaded to Mozy will have come from the old PC hard drive, and therefore would need to be downloaded to the new PC (the Mozy client software recognises the change to the PC registered to it).


It's not ideal when the small print comes to bite you in the ass years later, is it?

Mozy won’t be getting my business again this year. Aside from the nonsense above, they’ve changed their pricing plan such that, instead of paying £40-£50 a year for unlimited backup space as I currently do, I’ll be paying something in excess of £300 to accommodate the amount of data I’d need to back up, even given the losses I’ve just suffered.


Because you didn't read the small print, and the company tried to stay in business -- you're punishing the company for something that is your fault? The hypocrisy actually hurts to read, bud.

http://www.capture-the-moment.co.uk/tp/ ... p-services
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