Black Clipping Problem

Discussions, questions, comments and suggestions regarding Capture One PRO, Capture One PRO(For Sony), Capture One DB and Capture One Express(For Sony) 9.x

Black Clipping Problem

Postby NNN636254874943069713 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:42 am

Hello every one,
I want to switch my wf from Lightroom to CaptureOne, but before that I've done few tests and one of them is the black level...

Problem is in information in dark parts...Please check the attachment...

Lightroom better save information and picture looks detailed and smoother.
In both software I disable sharpness and reduce noise I just keep reduction of color noise and chromatic aberration.
WB set on shot and exposure is the same.
Export is TIF 16bit uncompressed AdobeRGB.

I used trail version of CO 9.3

Image

I also tried and trail version of CO 10...and looks even worse

Image

I hope that I've done something wrong...Because I heard and read a lot of great words about CO.

Thanks in advance!!!
NNN636254874943069713
 
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Re: Black Clipping Problem

Postby NNN636254874943069713 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:44 am

Please just open images in new tab on 100%

Cheers
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Re: Black Clipping Problem

Postby Bobtographer » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:20 pm

NNN636254874943069713 wrote:In both software I disable sharpness and reduce noise I just keep reduction of color noise and chromatic aberration.

I hope that I've done something wrong...Because I heard and read a lot of great words about CO.

Thanks in advance!!!

why disable it?
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Re: Black Clipping Problem

Postby NNN636254874943069713 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:51 pm

Bobtographer wrote:
NNN636254874943069713 wrote:In both software I disable sharpness and reduce noise I just keep reduction of color noise and chromatic aberration.

I hope that I've done something wrong...Because I heard and read a lot of great words about CO.

Thanks in advance!!!

why disable it?


Because isn't important for this test.Hm?
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Re: Black Clipping Problem

Postby NNN636254874943069713 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:53 pm

Hi Bob,

as you can see!I everything keep by default...but still looks very bad!!!

Image
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Re: Black Clipping Problem

Postby cdc » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:09 pm

Without knowing your workflow I'm curious why are you dialing in -4 EV?
Is this just a "stress test" to the programs for comparisons sake or do you find yourself dialing in -4 EV on a regular basis?
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Re: Black Clipping Problem

Postby NNN636254874943069713 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:14 pm

cdc wrote:Without knowing your workflow I'm curious why are you dialing in -4 EV?
Is this just a "stress test" to the programs for comparisons sake or do you find yourself dialing in -4 EV on a regular basis?


Hi cdc :) thank you for for question...Nothing special...Just testing before I start to use CO... I just noticed that I don't have a detail in shadows like in lightroom!I really don't know how!? I got more noise, clipped black... I'm just think in advance...What If I had more shadow in the scene?!?

Check attachment...
Please open in new tab...(full screen)
Image

I really don't know whats happend,but I would like to know.

Thanks again!
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Re: Black Clipping Problem

Postby cdc » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:20 am

I understand the reasons for comparing CO and LR but I have doubts about usefulness in the way you are going about doing this.

Instead of taking a properly exposed picture and dialing in -4 EV then trying to recover it in photoshop why not take a photo that was under exposed in camera and try to recover the detail in the programs? Or take a photo with very high contrast and see how much shadow and highlight detail you can salvage using each of the programs?

Real world tests.

Also both programs apply different profiles to the images so you are not starting with a level playing field, so to speak. CO has more contrast and saturation than LR does out of the gate. If you change the CO profile to 'Film Extra Shadow' it reduces the contrast and you will see more shadow detail. Same goes for the LR profile 'Camera Neutral'.
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Re: Black Clipping Problem

Postby NNN636254874943069713 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:16 am

cdc wrote:I understand the reasons for comparing CO and LR but I have doubts about usefulness in the way you are going about doing this.

Instead of taking a properly exposed picture and dialing in -4 EV then trying to recover it in photoshop why not take a photo that was under exposed in camera and try to recover the detail in the programs? Or take a photo with very high contrast and see how much shadow and highlight detail you can salvage using each of the programs?

Real world tests.

Also both programs apply different profiles to the images so you are not starting with a level playing field, so to speak. CO has more contrast and saturation than LR does out of the gate. If you change the CO profile to 'Film Extra Shadow' it reduces the contrast and you will see more shadow detail. Same goes for the LR profile 'Camera Neutral'.


I agree with you.I'ts a very difficult test...I tried different test with profiles and I god similar results...Some times I just want to continues edit my photos in photoshop and I need full information from RAW-tif 16bit...Question is Why CO clamp my data and add additional noise on picture??? How ever!!! Maybe I need to change workflow when I using CO...Maybe first edit and retouch all I want and after that...Use CO for final touch!But how can I then use power of raw conforming...I'm confused!

Cheers
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Re: Black Clipping Problem

Postby NNN636254874943069713 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:22 am

I just thinking what would happen If I would be in that situatuion ?!?

Image
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Re: Black Clipping Problem

Postby cdc » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:51 pm

NNN636254874943069713 wrote:I just thinking what would happen If I would be in that situatuion ?!?


With this picture specifically there is not much that can be done. The blacks have been crushed in the edit and it was saved as a jpg so there is not really any detail to be salvaged. I would suspect that the original version of this file had far less contrast though and it wouldn't be much of a problem making a high contrast edit that had detail in the blacks if you were editing from the RAW file. And that was sort of my point, testing the programs in the ways you are actually going to use them.

I do follow what you are saying though, if you take a properly exposed photo, dial down 4 EV, export it as a TIFF, and try to save the detail in photoshop the lightroom TIFF looks quite a bit better. I just can't see where that series of events would take place in everyday image editing so don't find it to be a useful test.

Lightroom and Capture One are better at pulling detail out of files than photoshop is because you are working on the RAW file so if a file is under or over exposed that is where I will work on it. In my workflow when I'm sending a photo to photoshop I try and squeeze as much detail as possible out of the RAW file and send a rather flat looking TIFF into photoshop, then do contrast adjustments in photoshop, so that is the point of view where I am coming from.

Perhaps you take a different approach in your workflow?
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Re: Black Clipping Problem

Postby NNN636254874943069713 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:46 pm

cdc wrote:
NNN636254874943069713 wrote:I just thinking what would happen If I would be in that situatuion ?!?


With this picture specifically there is not much that can be done. The blacks have been crushed in the edit and it was saved as a jpg so there is not really any detail to be salvaged. I would suspect that the original version of this file had far less contrast though and it wouldn't be much of a problem making a high contrast edit that had detail in the blacks if you were editing from the RAW file. And that was sort of my point, testing the programs in the ways you are actually going to use them.

I do follow what you are saying though, if you take a properly exposed photo, dial down 4 EV, export it as a TIFF, and try to save the detail in photoshop the lightroom TIFF looks quite a bit better. I just can't see where that series of events would take place in everyday image editing so don't find it to be a useful test.

Lightroom and Capture One are better at pulling detail out of files than photoshop is because you are working on the RAW file so if a file is under or over exposed that is where I will work on it. In my workflow when I'm sending a photo to photoshop I try and squeeze as much detail as possible out of the RAW file and send a rather flat looking TIFF into photoshop, then do contrast adjustments in photoshop, so that is the point of view where I am coming from.

Perhaps you take a different approach in your workflow?


My question went the other way :)
I just want to know.Am I doing something wrong when exporting images?Because I lose the detail...Like you said Lightroom looks quite a bit better, but generally test is useless.Nobody works on that way! I everything agree with you.I just want to know If I doing something wrong! How can I properly export my photos. That's it :)

Thank you for your time :)
Cheers
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