XF Autofocus

Discussions regarding Phase One 645 XF
Also lens discussion for Phase One and Schneider lenses.

XF Autofocus

Postby NN142196UL1 » Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:28 am

Hi! I think the new camera looks great! ( I've already ordered one ).

One question though, maybe someone knows. I shoot mostly portraits and the DF+ autofocus has been usable when using the center autofocus spot. The problem is always that when I focus on the eyes and recompose, the focus plane tilts and therefore shifts the focus from the eyes to approx. around the ears.

I was hoping for a movable focus point that would remove the need to recompose after focusing, but I don't see this problem going away with the new FX camera. Sure, it focuses quicker, but as long as I recompose I still have the same issue...

(I guess the gyroscopes in the camera could eventually be used to do something like the Hassy "True Focus"...)

Do anyone have any suggestions of how to get around this issue?

Best regards,
Steffen
NN142196UL1
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:27 am

Re: XF Autofocus

Postby David Cohen de Lara » Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:43 am

There are some leaked images online that show a much bigger AF sensor:
http://photorumors.com/2015/05/31/new-p ... ed-online/

This could mean multiple AF points, and if we're lucky those points might be spread out over the frame a bit.

If the XF only has one point, or if all the points are close to the center, we will be stuck with the old focus-recompose method. With practice you can guesstimate the offset you need and pull back the camera after recomposing, but of course this is never quite precise.
David Cohen de Lara
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:29 pm

Re: XF Autofocus

Postby Christian Gruner » Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:24 pm

The camera has 2 sizes of AF, spot and average, both in the center of the frame. The Spot area is very small, and can be used to lay focus exactly where disired.

In addition, the matte-screen has been updated to reflect these 2 areas, so it is easy what you are focusing on.
Test-Manager, Capture One, Phase One A/S
Christian Gruner
Crew
Crew
 
Posts: 1828
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:48 pm
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: XF Autofocus

Postby NN142196UL1 » Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:22 pm

Thanks for your replies.
It's good that the autofocus is improved, but the problem is still the same if there's only one point in the center... A bit disappointing, but would it be possible to add a focus point by a software update, or does it have to be done in the hardware?

-S
NN142196UL1
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:27 am

Re: XF Autofocus

Postby Ingo-A » Sun Jun 07, 2015 7:14 pm

HAP-1 is easy to expand and will allow us to continuously tailor the autofocus system to meet your needs, providing user-accessible software updates for years to come.


My assumption is, that we will see more options in the future.
Ingo-A
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:49 pm
Location: Germany

Re: XF Autofocus

Postby PhaseoneUser55657 » Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:29 pm

Adding focus points where they would be useful would depend on how much of the frame the new HAP-1 sensor covers. I have not seen any images of the HAP-1 sensor to compare the size to, is it 20mmX20mm or just 2mmX2mm. You would also have to look at the amount of the reflex mirror is translucent and how large the secondary mirror is. Until some one has pictures of the inside of the XF we can only guess at how much of the frame the sensor covers. Right now, I think they say its about the same as the older DF cameras, just with more sensors.

I have not even heard the type of focusing used, as they say they can do some exposure detection with it, when used with the waist level view finder. Imagine a low res sensor that has a lot phase detection pixels in it like some of the Sony's sensors have, but not all, and no color filter. With this you could do initial focusing by contrast and hone in with phase detection, you could also do exposure control, over the focus area. I have not looked/heard if they have a patent on the HAP-1, but if they did you could pull all the information through that.

Robert
PhaseoneUser55657
 
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:19 pm

Re: XF Autofocus

Postby FredBGG » Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:11 am

Christian Gruner wrote:The camera has 2 sizes of AF, spot and average, both in the center of the frame. The Spot area is very small, and can be used to lay focus exactly where disired.

In addition, the matte-screen has been updated to reflect these 2 areas, so it is easy what you are focusing on.


How large is the sensor?

How large is the spot focus area and how large is the average focus area?

An image of the new focusing screen would help.
FredBGG
 
Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:11 pm

Re: XF Autofocus

Postby eisbaer » Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:45 pm

In the live Chat I asked about the AF System. There is only 1 AF Point and its not shiftable.

I really wonder why Phase One decided to got this route with a brand new camera and only 1 AF Point.

Does somebody know?

Frank
Frank Werner
digital imaging consulting
http://www.xvm.de
eisbaer
Certified Professional
Certified Professional
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:18 pm

Re: XF Autofocus

Postby flashsplash » Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:00 pm

I have exactly the same issue .

The Honeycom (HAP-1) focus on the new body is very accurate however loses its accuracy factor as you need to recompose... So what is the point of having a super duper focus system with one point (center) ?

On that question I got a interesting answer: Can't say much , but there is potential....... :D :D :D

To me that is "We are working on it" , I assume based on other discussions and the technology of the C-MoS sensor (focusing sensor not the actual capture sensor) that we will see soon a moveable focusing point. Not multiple but at least one moveable.

I would be already thrilled with a center and 2/3 postion at the vertical and horizontal axis .

Lets see what they come -up with..... :D

I am about to order, but have not seen a price yet for the body.. My I ask you what you paid for the XF body on itself ?

Kind regards,
Steve
As far as I have been told
A photographer without a style is like a pub without beer
flashsplash
Certified Professional
Certified Professional
 
Posts: 99
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:15 am
Location: Belgium

Re: XF Autofocus

Postby will111 » Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:59 am

Whilst, the new camera has the gyroscope so that it is perfectly technically possible to implement an adjustment of the focus to accommodate recomposition and the maths wouldn't actually be that complex, it may be slightly wishful thinking that it may be implemented soon.

https://www.google.co.uk/patents/WO2010 ... CC4Q6AEwAg

Even though, possibly foolishly, I pride myself on my ignorance of business, even I can see that the concept has been patented by Hasselblad and whilst I hope that this problem could be circumvented I suspect that it can not as if it was that easy it would have been done so for the launch as Phase One have more than enough talent to write the relatively simple cosine trigonometry required to implement such a feature.

One possible is that Hasselblad goes belly up which could possibly open the door, I can't imagine any entente cordiale otherwise :-). A really good lawyer would be another option!

I am led to believe that the cmos focusing sensor is very small, I can only presume that making it large with multiple selection points had technical difficulties in implementation and/or was cost prohibitive, because I cannot believe that such a thing would not have been quite high on the list of wants when the P1 team conceptualised a new camera.
will111
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:28 pm
Location: UK

Re: XF Autofocus

Postby FredBGG » Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:30 pm

will111 wrote:Whilst, the new camera has the gyroscope so that it is perfectly technically possible to implement an adjustment of the focus to accommodate recomposition and the maths wouldn't actually be that complex, it may be slightly wishful thinking that it may be implemented soon.


That would require very precise linear motors in the lenses. PhaseMamiya uses an old fashioned motor in the body
with a drive pin. Do any lenses use in lens linear motors for focusing?
FredBGG
 
Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:11 pm

Re: XF Autofocus

Postby flashsplash » Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:35 pm

Indeed, it seems that there is no solution soon after having talked to P.O
The HAP-1 sensor is only 1000 pixels and located so that it covers the center of the mirror/lens (where there is a minimum of deformation and the quality at it sharpest). So technically it is not possible to apply another method without change-ing the sensor (focus). An alternative solution could be to place the sensor (focus) at 2/3 of the image, still a single point but at least it would in most cases no require a reframing.

So two types of fittings, XF with fixed focus point at 2/3 and another body at center..... I proposed it, but not to much enthusiasm :)

I don't think that there will be a full solution (multiple points) before we get a mirror less XF.


I had the change to test the camera last week and I need to say that the focus is fast ! and accurate !. Lovely camera.
A photographer without a style is like a pub without beer
flashsplash
Certified Professional
Certified Professional
 
Posts: 99
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:15 am
Location: Belgium

Re: XF Autofocus

Postby Christian Gruner » Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:28 pm

flashsplash wrote:The HAP-1 sensor is only 1000 pixels

Nop, it's a 1 megapixel CMOS sensor, so 1.000.000 pixels
Test-Manager, Capture One, Phase One A/S
Christian Gruner
Crew
Crew
 
Posts: 1828
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:48 pm
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Re: XF Autofocus

Postby flashsplash » Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:47 am

Hi Christian, indeed. When I stated 1000 pixels that was the length so 1000x1000 is indeed 1Mpx. I should have stated that......
Loved the Honey explanation (where the name came from) That is so funny...
A photographer without a style is like a pub without beer
flashsplash
Certified Professional
Certified Professional
 
Posts: 99
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:15 am
Location: Belgium

Re: XF Autofocus

Postby JUK » Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:11 pm

To me that is "We are working on it" , I assume based on other discussions and the technology of the C-MOS sensor (focusing sensor not the actual capture sensor) that we will see soon a moveable focusing point. Not multiple but at least one moveable.


This is achievable and with future Phase One XF updates, we will only see the XF autofocus sensor become better and better, with more features. The entire system is founded on modern hardware and an open platform philosophy, allowing us to continuously upgrade each component with user-accessible software updates for years to come. You invest in the future with a Phase One camera system.
Kind regards,

Justin
Team Phase One Support

Please make a support case for technical support with Capture One software:
Http://support.phaseone.com and click on "Contact Support"

Connect with Phase One on our social media channels.
JUK
Crew
Crew
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:49 pm
Location: Melville, NY

Next

Return to Phase One 645 XF



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest