Error message when starting C1 8 on Windows 10

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Re: Error message when starting C1 8 on Windows 10

Postby dwahli » Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:07 am

d_e wrote:I understand that P1 did not act after Insiders reported the bug. It's unreasonable to patch products for beta releases of Windows. Some Windows releases break things that get fixed later.

But I really expected them to step up, once the new version was publically released. This is a letdown. Especially since it's a single character fix. It's just really unprofessional.

I personally do have a fix for the problem. But I had to remove the licensing checks. Distributing this version is obviously illegal. If you have any suggestions how I could/share my workaround, please tell me.

Really interested by your fix but don't get what you've done.

Did you patched the main exe ?
Why do you have to remove license check ?
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Re: Error message when starting C1 8 on Windows 10

Postby RichardT » Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:28 am

dwahli wrote:
d_e wrote:I understand that P1 did not act after Insiders reported the bug. It's unreasonable to patch products for beta releases of Windows. Some Windows releases break things that get fixed later.

But I really expected them to step up, once the new version was publically released. This is a letdown. Especially since it's a single character fix. It's just really unprofessional.

I personally do have a fix for the problem. But I had to remove the licensing checks. Distributing this version is obviously illegal. If you have any suggestions how I could/share my workaround, please tell me.

Really interested by your fix but don't get what you've done.

Did you patched the main exe ?
Why do you have to remove license check ?


I was wondering about the legal implications in regard to the Capture One Software License Agreement?

3.2 This License only gives you some rights to use the Software. Phase One reserves all other rights. Except as permitted by applicable law you may not decompile, reverse engineer, or disassemble the Software. You may not modify, rent, lease, loan, distribute, sublicense, create derivative works from the Software, transmit the Software over a network or otherwise provide commercial hosting services with the Software.
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Re: Error message when starting C1 8 on Windows 10

Postby d_e » Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:01 am

In order to make the software interoperable with other systems (Windows 10 in this case) you are allowed to reverse engineer software in most jurisdictions. Sure, it's not in compliance with the EULA. But I don't think that I caused any damage to PhaseOne, I don't profit from it and I don't distribute my results. I don't see why they would want to sue me for this.



I had to remove the licensing code, because it noticed that I modified the application and didn't let me run the application anymore.
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Re: Error message when starting C1 8 on Windows 10

Postby John Doe » Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:09 am

AiDon wrote:I also am affected by this because I run Windows 10 but I also don't understand why it is expected that Phase One should modify what is clearly a Legacy product.

Simply because they CLAIM that CO8 is compatible with Windows 10. If they didn't say so, people would have no cause to complain. If they say it's compatible with Windows 10, they must make it work on Windows 10, period.
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Re: Error message when starting C1 8 on Windows 10

Postby dwahli » Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:10 am

AiDon wrote:I also am affected by this because I run Windows 10 but I also don't understand why it is expected that Phase One should modify what is clearly a Legacy product. Yes it is unfortunate but I don't see any other software providers modifying their legacy products.

People bought it at full price until October 29th, 2015, after CO9 was available or you was entitled for a free update.
It's only 9 months old !
Do you think it's OK that a (expensive) software could not be used after only 9 months ???

AiDon wrote:And remember that Adobe wont ever and never has update legacy products.

For me, CO8 is the only software that have an issue after Windows update.
My Lightroom 5 which is lot more older works flawlessly.
I never heard about any issues with Adobe product after Windows update, or even Windows version upgrade.

AiDon wrote:It is unreasonable for us to expect Phase One to update v8, but as a gesture they may offer discounts for v8 users to upgrade to v9.

Already asked but refused.
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Re: Error message when starting C1 8 on Windows 10

Postby NNN635085350375842351 » Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:05 pm

I am very, very, disapointed by Phase One's reaction to this.
If they don't reconsider very soon I am going to take my business elsewhere.
:(
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Re: Error message when starting C1 8 on Windows 10

Postby AiDon » Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:09 pm

dwahli wrote:People bought it at full price until October 29th, 2015, after CO9 was available or you was entitled for a free update.
It's only 9 months old !
Do you think it's OK that a (expensive) software could not be used after only 9 months ???


Your right users who purchased Capture One 30 days before the release date were eligible for a free upgrade. (I upgraded back in October2014 and only 12 months later v9 was released) so it does have an approximate cycle of a year.

I am not condoning their actions, just saying it is unreasonable for us to expect any company to provide updates for previous versions (legacy) of any software.

But I do suggest that Phase One should offer affected users a discount greater than the currently available 10% as an enticement to upgrade.
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Re: Error message when starting C1 8 on Windows 10

Postby NN635772735358360201UL » Tue Aug 09, 2016 3:34 pm

AiDon wrote:
Your right users who purchased Capture One 30 days before the release date were eligible for a free upgrade. (I upgraded back in October2014 and only 12 months later v9 was released) so it does have an approximate cycle of a year.

I am not condoning their actions, just saying it is unreasonable for us to expect any company to provide updates for previous versions (legacy) of any software.

But I do suggest that Phase One should offer affected users a discount greater than the currently available 10% as an enticement to upgrade.


AiDon you keep saying that C1 8 is legacy/outdated anyone selling anything that is ment for the use by professionals no matter the industry or level had better support that product for a minimum of 2 years because pros need to get most out any investment they make.

The problem here is that PhaseOne management has made the decision to obviate all version prior to C1 9 on WIn 10 A.E. the problem is not as a result of MS breaking compatibility but as a result of them enforcing rules for the .NET framework that the C1 team uses.

Here is the kicker d_e who as far as I know dose not work for PhaseONE and not privy to the C1 code base in the space of oh about 48hr came up with a solution to the problem.

We are not asking C1 to upgrade user to the latest version of their software, we are asking them to fix a problem of their own making. Asking user to not upgrade their OS is not a good answer to the problem as the feature that they were using that is no longer available can be exploited by malicious software.

d_e if is indeed that PhaseONE has abandon C1 on Win 10 A.E. then it can be argued that have not done and can not do any damages to them as they have no financial interest in C1 8 and below. As long a your not violating their IP. And there lays the rub of this management decision, no one came to this decision looked at it from any other angle then the "lets force them to upgrade so we make more money" point of view
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Re: Error message when starting C1 8 on Windows 10

Postby daffy » Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:13 pm

d_e wrote:In order to make the software interoperable with other systems (Windows 10 in this case) you are allowed to reverse engineer software in most jurisdictions.


Specifically, it is allowed in the EU, for instance - http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 022:EN:PDF
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Re: Error message when starting C1 8 on Windows 10

Postby daffy » Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:11 pm

AiDon wrote:I am not condoning their actions, just saying it is unreasonable for us to expect any company to provide updates for previous versions (legacy) of any software.


PhaseOne advertised, and continue to advertise, support for the Microsoft Windows 10 operating system for Capture One 8.x.

Looking at the technical implementation presented in this thread, PhaseOne deliberately opted to
* access private implementation details of the base operating system
* coded that very access in a defective fashion

Now, Microsoft, on the core .Net platform (which is the subject here), is an extremely diligent partner. They really, really, REALLY go for backwards compatibility. They are a very responsible bunch of bunch of people.

But PhaseOne simply made two mistakes - they deliberately violated the "only use public APIs" rule that every professional software developer will take as major gospel (design defect). And then, on top, they made a stupid mistake (implementation defect). Their QA never caught that.

Full blame, all of it, no mediating factors, is on one party: PhaseOne.

Commercially, I understand the stance PhaseOne takes. As a paying customer of PhaseOne, and given the story above, I think that is very much unacceptable.
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Re: Error message when starting C1 8 on Windows 10

Postby Edward11 » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:56 am

I've contacted the office of my state attorney general regarding the actions of Phase One. I suggest others in the US do the same with their state's attorney general, and those in other countries contact the equivalent government office for them.

At issue are two key points:

First is that Phase One sold customers a professional software product, and then a few months later decided to completely break it, rendering it inaccessible. People were still purchasing Capture One Pro 8 in October, while Phase One was made aware of this .Net problem in February, just four months later. They fixed the issue in Pro 9 but decided not to take care of the software they were selling for $300 a short time before. This violates the customer's reasonable expectation of use, that the software they buy will be accessible for longer than a few months. (Phase One may have actually been aware of this problem earlier, but we know from the first posts in this thread that they were informed by February at the latest)

Second is that customers are now unable to open Capture One Pro 8 at all, impeding their ability to complete jobs or fulfill contracts and obligations. All their work done within Capture One 8 is off limits now, and Phase One tells its customers they must pay an additional fee to access it. That work belongs to us, and Phase One cannot order us to pay them money for our own work.

Phase One also says we can roll back the Windows 10 updates to regain access to Capture One 8, but that is not necessarily possible for many customers. To start with, it must be done within ten days of the Anniversary update, or else the system cannot be restored to a prior state. So if you don't discover this issue and attempt to roll back Windows 10 in time, your only option is to pay Phase One the ransom they're demanding. Also, even if you are able to act quick enough to roll your computer back, Windows 10 will automatically reschedule the Anniversary update again, rendering Capture One Pro 8 inaccessible once more, unless you are tech savvy enough to stop it. And then, even if you have the knowhow to stop all future updates, you will still face problems because your computer will be open to myriad security vulnerabilities, and it will gradually grow incompatible with all other software besides Capture One 8. Those limitations are unreasonable, and Phase One cannot stop us from accessing our own work in this way.

Phase One has broken multiple consumer protection laws, and I urge you not to let them get away with it.
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Re: Error message when starting C1 8 on Windows 10

Postby Ulf » Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:07 am

Hi

A beta version of Capture One 8.3.5 can now be requested by contacting Phase One support.
Go to: Http://support.phaseone.com
And click on contact support.

Final version of 8.3.5 which includes support for Windows 10 Anniversary edition will hopefully be out very soon.

As this is now available, the discussion in this thread has run its course and will closed.
Kind Regards
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Re: Error message when starting C1 8 on Windows 10

Postby Ulf » Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:23 pm

Hi

Final version of Capture One 8 is now available from the software archive.
Version is 8.3.5 which fixes issues with Windows 10 Anniversary edition.
https://www.phaseone.com/en/Download/So ... veWin.aspx
Kind Regards
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