Which iMac 5k option is the best for C1?

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Which iMac 5k option is the best for C1?

Postby hifimacianer » Mon Nov 02, 2015 10:28 am

Hi,

I'm going to buy a new iMac 5k soon, but I am not sure what model I should buy to get the best C1 performance.
I don't want to buy the maxed out model, because I have a budget limit.
I have a external 1TB SSD, so internal storage isn't that important. But if you think the internal SSD makes a huge difference in speed compared to the external (for C1 usage), I could opt for the 512GB SSD.


There are basicly 3 options I have in mind:

iMac 5k 3,3 Ghz
AMD Radeon R9 M395 GPU
256GB SSD
Apple Magic Trackpad 2
= 2350€


iMac 5k 3,3 Ghz
AMD Radeon R9 M395 GPU
+ 512GB SSD option
Apple Magic Trackpad 2
= 2578€


iMac 5k 3,2 Ghz
AMD Radeon R9 390 GPU
+ 4 Ghz i7 option
+ 256 GB SSD option
Apple Magic Trackpad 2
= 2544€

Baseline decision is, if I should go for the i7 with the slower GPU, or for the i5 but with the faster GPU.
I understand that the i7 helps to create the Image previews and for exporting. But does it also help for the Image processing itself? Does it help for zooming into the Images? I heard that C1 always has to read directly from the RAWs, because the 5k screen is too large to work with the smaller preview Images. Does the i7 help here, or should I opt for the better GPU?

I don't play any games, and I've seen in some benchmarks on http://barefeats.com/imac5k15.html, that the M390 isn't that much slower than the M395 when it comes to openCL performance. Or doesn't C1 use openCL for the Image processing and I should go for the better GPU instead of the i7?

Photography is only my hobby, so it doesn't matter if it takes some more seconds while importing/exporting.
But I want a fluid workflow when I'm working on my Images, so that should be the main aim of my decision.

Can anyone help me?
hifimacianer
 
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Re: Which iMac 5k option is the best for C1?

Postby Eric Nepean » Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:39 am

I too am struggling with the same question.

I have a support request in right now regarding performance, I will update you as get information.

One interesting thread: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/56695931

BTW, how many images do you have, from what brand of camera, are you intending to go referenced or managed, catalog or session?
Cheers
Eric
(OSX 10.12, iMac and MacBook Air, Panasonic GX7,GM5,G5, Olympus E-M1)
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Re: Which iMac 5k option is the best for C1?

Postby hifimacianer » Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:25 am

Eric Nepean wrote:I too am struggling with the same question.

I have a support request in right now regarding performance, I will update you as get information.

One interesting thread: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/56695931

BTW, how many images do you have, from what brand of camera, are you intending to go referenced or managed, catalog or session?


Thanks for your Input.
I also found that thread but I think the poster is a little confusing with his statement.
He said that C1 uses all available cores, but he would prefer it to go with the better graphics, because Apple is selling the better processor with this configuration anyways. But that is not true.

The i7 upgrade is always BTO, regardless if you go with the stock graphics or the BTO 395x.
And if you look at the stock graphics, they all have fast 2GB GDDR5 RAM. The main difference is the clockspeed and and number of computing units.

Anyway, I already pushed the trigger for the mid range model (M390GPU) with the i7 upgrade and 256GB SSD.
All the benchmarks are mainly testing for gaming Performance with high fps rates, or Video processing where it is also important to have a fast GPU. But honestly I can't believe that Image processing in C1 or LR is equally demanding, if you don't use photoshop with a lot of layers and filters in a extensive way. I'm not a gamer, so the M390 should be way enough for my needs. And if the C1 developers don't manage it to let it run fluid on 5k Screens, while other Apps like LR, Photos or even the old Aperture have no problems with that resolution, I'll call the Support and want my money back. It's that easy. It can't be, that a pro Application isn't able to run smooth on pro Hardware that was released 1 year ago.

And regarding your last question:
I'll probably use sessions, because I don't always shoot RAW.
I have a 16MP Fuji X-T1, and it has a really good jpg engine. So I only shoot RAW for "Special Events", for my everyday Pictures I shoot JPG. I manage my pictures in Apples Photos App, because I like the smooth Integration with my iOS devices and the sharing options in that App.
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Re: Which iMac 5k option is the best for C1?

Postby CAPTURE NIKON D700 » Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:16 am

My feedback to all.

with my old Imac 27" i 5 mittel 2011 and SSD+HD Fusion drive and 24 RAM, El Capitan
C1 works moor faster and stabil as the new Imac :lol:

this happens only when using C1 8 in Session Mod :idea:
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Re: Which iMac 5k option is the best for C1?

Postby hifimacianer » Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:07 am

Thats nice for you, but it's no solution for todays iMac buyers, because there are no more 27" iMacs with a lower resolution available. The 27" are 5k only.

The developers really should work on this problem, because it's not a hardware related problem, since other pro Apps don't have a problem with it.
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Re: Which iMac 5k option is the best for C1?

Postby Eric Nepean » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:05 pm

hifimacianer wrote:I also found that thread but I think the poster is a little confusing with his statement.

I thought his observation of core usage by different photo applications to be the interesting part. I note his conclusion that C1 makes use of all the cores.

I am tentatively concluding from observations of my own equipment that C1 performance depends on the number and capability of the cores, which is consistent with his observation of core usage. If true, a quad core i7 offers significantly more power to C1 than any i5 or dual core i7.

You have purchased the same version of iMac I am considering, however I probably will not purchase until after Christmas or New Years for various reasons. I am still wondering how much use does i7 make of the OpenCL and OpenGL capability.

I would appreciate hearing of your experience with the new iMac.
Cheers
Eric
(OSX 10.12, iMac and MacBook Air, Panasonic GX7,GM5,G5, Olympus E-M1)
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Re: Which iMac 5k option is the best for C1?

Postby hifimacianer » Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:09 am

Eric Nepean wrote:I thought his observation of core usage by different photo applications to be the interesting part. I note his conclusion that C1 makes use of all the cores.

I am tentatively concluding from observations of my own equipment that C1 performance depends on the number and capability of the cores, which is consistent with his observation of core usage. If true, a quad core i7 offers significantly more power to C1 than any i5 or dual core i7.

I would appreciate hearing of your experience with the new iMac.


Yes, the first part of his post regarding the CPU cores C1 and LR use was indeed interesting.
The confusing part for me was his conclusion.
1. to go with the better GPU (instead of better CPU)
2. that you get the better CPU anyway if you choose a higher configuration with better graphics

I'll post my experiences when I receive it.
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Re: Which iMac 5k option is the best for C1?

Postby WPNL » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:44 am

I expercienced that after upgrading the GPU (R290X9) export time were significantly reduced.
Preview building and other "internal" calculations rely on CPU.
It's a matter of weighing what's most important to your workflow which one is most important.
Working on a UHD or 5K screen requires so much processing power that I doubt any single core system will be sufficient!
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Re: Which iMac 5k option is the best for C1?

Postby MikeFromMesa » Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:42 pm

WPNL wrote:I expercienced that after upgrading the GPU (R290X9) export time were significantly reduced.

I am curious to know what the before and after average values were as I do not know what kind of improvement you consider to be "significant". 10%? 20%? 50%?
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Re: Which iMac 5k option is the best for C1?

Postby hifimacianer » Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:59 pm

The speed boost could also come from the better openCL performance of the newer GPU.
But I observed that there isn't a big difference in the openCL performance between the M390 and M395 GPU in the new iMacs.

According to benchmarks on Berefeats.com, the difference is around 10-12%.
But the differences between the M380 - M390 and the M395 - M395x are bigger (40% and 18%).
So I think the M390 and M395 are the sweet spot for many people.
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Re: Which iMac 5k option is the best for C1?

Postby WPNL » Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:28 pm

I upgraded from a GTX285, just wanted to point out the difference GPU/CPU and the significance :-)
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Re: Which iMac 5k option is the best for C1?

Postby Peter762 » Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:55 am

I believe the amount of RAM you have is the most important option. I use the 5k iMac with my files on a hard drive connected by thunderbolt and the performance is very good even with large files (43 gig) Unless you are planning to keep your image files on the internal drive I don't see the value in a large SDD. I added the 1 terabyte SSd and a year later still have almost 750 gigs available.
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Re: Which iMac 5k option is the best for C1?

Postby photomixx » Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:42 pm

Hi all,
I have a question to the graphics memory on iMac 5k with AMD Radeon R9 m395x chipset.
Can someone explain me what advantage it has to buy the the 4GB variation instead of the 2GB graphic card ?
I don't mean some 3D benchmarks. I'm not a gamer, but I plan to plug in one additional 4k display to the iMac 5k.
So I ask me and now you ;-)
- can the 2GB version manage 2 UHD displays with Adobe RGB in 10 Bit color depth ?
- can C1 v9.1 benefit from the additional 2GB vram ?
- is the OpenCL support fast enough for one (5k) or two (+4k) displays ?
I hope anybody can answer this. The AMD specs didn't answer this questions e.g. the max. resolution with 2 or 4GB.

Best regards
Joerg
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Re: Which iMac 5k option is the best for C1?

Postby fatihayoglu » Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:37 pm

photomixx wrote:Hi all,
I have a question to the graphics memory on iMac 5k with AMD Radeon R9 m395x chipset.
Can someone explain me what advantage it has to buy the the 4GB variation instead of the 2GB graphic card ?
I don't mean some 3D benchmarks. I'm not a gamer, but I plan to plug in one additional 4k display to the iMac 5k.
So I ask me and now you ;-)
- can the 2GB version manage 2 UHD displays with Adobe RGB in 10 Bit color depth ?
- can C1 v9.1 benefit from the additional 2GB vram ?
- is the OpenCL support fast enough for one (5k) or two (+4k) displays ?
I hope anybody can answer this. The AMD specs didn't answer this questions e.g. the max. resolution with 2 or 4GB.

Best regards
Joerg


Hi Joerg,

I use an iMac 5k, late 2015 model with 4GB Ram, 4Ghz CPU and 24GB Ram with 512GB SSD.

Speed wise it is alright, maybe one can say it is fast. But there is a problem with OpenCL and you have to turn it off. Technical support is aware of the problem and they are investigating. Last I've heard they think they have found the root problem and will issue an update soon. Ram wise when I am working it is consuming about %70 of the RAM while no other app is working on the background, except standard OS X apps.

Hope this helps,

Fatih
Late 2015 iMac 5K, 4Ghz, 32GB RAM, 512GB SSD, 4GB GPU
Nikon D750, 20 f/1.8G, 35 f/2D, 50 f/1.8D, 85 f/1.8D, 24-70 f/2.8E, 70-200 f/2.8G
Leica M10, 35 Summicron, 50 Summilux, 90 Summicron
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Re: Which iMac 5k option is the best for C1?

Postby photomixx » Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:15 pm

Hi Fatih,
thanks for the feedback.
It answer not really my question, but slowly I'm really so far that I will be buying the 4GB variant. Too bad that the Apple support can not even explain me what value have the 2GB difference.

Best regards
Joerg
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