Dehaze equivalent?

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Dehaze equivalent?

Postby newenglandrocks » Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:25 pm

Hello,

I understand how to do some of this with the curves tool, but is there any dehaze tool available on C1 Pro?

http://petapixel.com/2015/07/25/this-is-what-adobes-dehaze-slider-does-to-photos-of-the-night-sky/

Albert
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Re: Dehaze equivalent?

Postby Paul_Steunebrink » Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:15 am

Yes, you can do this with either the Levels or the Curve tools in CO8. In particular the color channels are very useful.

A quick way to do this is to set the Levels tool channel mode to "Red, Green, and Blue channels" in Preferences > Exposure tab. Next, use auto adjust in Levels.

More reading on Levels and Curve tools:
http://imagealchemist.net/bright-and-br ... vels-tool/
http://imagealchemist.net/create-your-a ... th-curves/
http://imagealchemist.net/the-secret-ye ... ting-tool/
Last edited by Paul_Steunebrink on Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dehaze equivalent?

Postby HansB » Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:37 am

The example jpg quality is too bad to really use them as reference. One cannot work out the fine detail that is not saved because of shrinking the image and using a lossy format. In this case, that's what you need for the 'milky' part of the Milky Way. But I've used them nevertheless to give it a try.

With this example:

Just moving the black- mid point in levels can do the job the simple way. Maybe you want to add some clarity. But Auto-Level never did the job for me with those hazy images.

A better option is to take the lower end of the curve down a lot (make sure to keep it a curve) and the middle and upper part back up to normal. Again, maybe you want to add some clarity. This preserves some structure in the blacks, which is lost when moving the black point.

Both methods work fine (they can be combined if there is no relevant information in the lowest end). And, in this example, I don't produce that massive bright halo above the roof's edge like LR does. I am preferring curve to preserve quality when there is information in the part that the black point would cut off.

And for this example, I would definitely bring down saturation in the final image.

The disadvantages: not just a slider, knowledge needed.
The advantage: I can match it correctly to each single shot.

The approach works similar with white fog, just using the bright end.

My personal conclusion at this point:
I have done a lot of images the manual way, most of them nature and sports. The results are way better doing it manually, no matter if I use LR, PS, CO, AP (Affinity Photo), or even UFRAW (Gimp). The results I have seen from LR's dehaze til now are OK for a quick and dirty run. But I don't find them satisfactory for a final image. Sorry, Adobe, just like the pano's and HDR's, you have to do better with Dehaze, too.


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Re: Dehaze equivalent?

Postby newenglandrocks » Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:27 pm

Thanks everyone for the detailed replies. I'm new to C1, and I'm looking forwards to trying out some of your techniques.

Albert
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Re: Dehaze equivalent?

Postby Keith Reeder » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:09 pm

Playing with Curves and Black/White points does not even come close the the effect of DeHaze - or ClearView in DxO Optics Pro - both of which bring out gobs of micro-detail in a way which tonal changes simply cannot do.

In fact, DeHaze is much more closely related to Capture One's Clarity tool in this regard - but far more sophisticated in terms of combining a number of separate effects in order to achieve its end result.
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Re: Dehaze equivalent?

Postby Paul_Steunebrink » Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:11 pm

Hi Keith,

It is good that you bring the Clarity tool to the table, I have overlooked that option.
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Re: Dehaze equivalent?

Postby newenglandrocks » Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:31 am

I don't know how to ask this, but now that I've had a chance to try the suggestions here as well as consider the opinions here, I'd like to ask Phase One to add "dehaze" to a future release of C1 Pro. Thanks!

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Re: Dehaze equivalent?

Postby MikeFromMesa » Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:47 am

I have used Optics Pro's ClearView and I have to say that it is simply amazing. It does clear the haze but it also has many other uses, especially when editing landscape photos. I was so taken by what it adds to my ability to edit and process images that I have begun using it instead of C1 for some of my trip photos until C1 adds a de-hazing function of its own.
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Re: Dehaze equivalent?

Postby Keith Reeder » Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:26 am

No combination of Capture One tools gets close to what DeHaze and ClearView can do, Paul - they're properly novel functions that cannot be replicated from within capture One in my experience - and believe me. I've tried.

The ability of these tools to (for example) pull startling detail out of apparently flat clouds (a real "where did that come from?" experience) is worth the price of admission all on its own, and while Clarity does something of this, it's generally at the expense of unacceptable noise, while still failing to extract as much detail.

This detail extraction is actually very similar to the effect of the "Small Detail" slider in the Topaz Detail plugin, but DeHaze and ClearView both apply a number of changes - to detail, and to tonal values - in an intelligent-behind-the-scenes way which is very rewarding when used carefully.
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Re: Dehaze equivalent?

Postby Christian Gruner » Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:30 pm

lIf you have some good examples where "dehaze" would be a nice addition, don't hesitate to make the raw file available to us, either in a support case, or here on the forum via a download link.
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Re: Dehaze equivalent?

Postby NN886482 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:24 pm

Keith Reeder wrote:No combination of Capture One tools gets close to what DeHaze and ClearView can do, Paul - they're properly novel functions that cannot be replicated from within capture One in my experience - and believe me. I've tried.

The ability of these tools to (for example) pull startling detail out of apparently flat clouds (a real "where did that come from?" experience) is worth the price of admission all on its own, and while Clarity does something of this, it's generally at the expense of unacceptable noise, while still failing to extract as much detail.

This detail extraction is actually very similar to the effect of the "Small Detail" slider in the Topaz Detail plugin, but DeHaze and ClearView both apply a number of changes - to detail, and to tonal values - in an intelligent-behind-the-scenes way which is very rewarding when used carefully.



Not so well know is a plugin for photoshop i have been using for years
http://www.kolor.com/neutralhazer/

you can use it in a mask
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Re: Dehaze equivalent?

Postby MikeFromMesa » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:50 pm

Christian Gruner wrote:lIf you have some good examples where "dehaze" would be a nice addition, don't hesitate to make the raw file available to us, either in a support case, or here on the forum via a download link.

Happy to help.

Here is a dropbox link to a Canon raw image:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/u0vcvzmix2u2p54/IMG_0007.CR2?dl=0

Here is the same image processed in Dxo Optics Pro without ClearView adjustment:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7k9e1bjn7z2pdv0/IMG_0007Without.jpg?dl=0

Here is the same image processed in Dxo Optics Pro with ClearView adjustment:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9kukm33tf5txw60/IMG_0007With.jpg?dl=0

As you can see the difference is simply amazing and is so startling that I have decided to process my images in Optics Pro until such time as C1 has added some equivalent. No real processing was done on this image as my intention was to show what just a simple de-haze filter can do. As you can see I have not even straightened the horizon as I wanted the "before" and "after" jpg versions to correspond properly to the raw image.

Of course I live in the American Southwest so there is often haze in the air in the form of small particulate matter, mostly sand, and almost all of the landscape photos taken in this area will show this sort of thing, some more serious than others. Given where I live I guess I can supply many more of these, but space on dropbox is limited ...
Last edited by MikeFromMesa on Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dehaze equivalent?

Postby camhabib » Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:14 pm

I'm with others on this. "Dehaze" is either just a combination of pre-existing modifications to the imagine, in which case it should be an extremely easy task for the engineers to implement a slider for that combines the necessary adjustments, or it's a feature that C1 doesn't yet have, in which case it would be the only major processing engine to now not feature. It's an unbelievably useful feature when it comes to astrophotography, foggy conditions, or even to add a certain "pop" to pictures. I can upload numerous examples as well, though I'm not really sure why they're required as the "dehaze" function can be used on any photo to give a desired effect.
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Re: Dehaze equivalent?

Postby SFA » Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:05 am

Hi Mike,


Try this.

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<SL Engine="800">
<E K="FilmCurve" V="CanonEOS5DMk3-Linear Response.fcrv" />
<E K="Saturation" V="44.348" />
<E K="WhiteBalanceTint" V="-0.218" />
<E K="WhiteBalanceTemperature" V="5220.829" />
<E K="Shadow" V="0.071;0.067;0.051;0.000" />
<E K="Highlight" V="0.662;0.723;0.755;1.000" />
<E K="Midtone" V="0.000;0.000;0.000;-0.158" />
<E K="HighlightRecovery" V="100.000" />
<E K="GradationCurve" V="0.000,0.000;1.000,1.000" />
<E K="GradationCurveRed" V="0.000,0.000;1.000,1.000" />
<E K="GradationCurveGreen" V="0.000,0.000;1.000,1.000" />
<E K="GradationCurveBlue" V="0.000,0.000;1.000,1.000" />
<E K="Name" V="MikefromMesa_IMG_0007" />
<E K="UUID" V="34b56b0d-6c82-458f-8377-6e3190f35945" />
<E K="StyleSource" V="Styles" />
<E K="Clarity" V="69.565" />
<E K="ClarityStructure" V="47.826" />
<E K="ClarityMethod" V="3" />
</SL>



I can't remember if you are using Win or Mac (although I know this is the Mac thread). Instructions for saving on WIndows follows. Hopefully Mac users will be familiar with what to do for the same activity on their machines.

On Windows :

Save this as a style as follows:

Open Notepad.

Cut all the blue text and paste it into your notepad session.

Save the file as MikefromMesa_IMG_007.costyle

My Win 7 installation has that at


C:\Users\[USERNAME]\AppData\Local\CaptureOne\Styles50

If you don't find the same go to the Styles and Presets tool with any image open, Click "+" to add a new style. The contents don't matter here.

Click save and a Windows explorer window will open and you should see a folder which may or may not have Styles already included. Either way the path will be visible at the top of the window so you know where the costyle file needs to go.

You can save it directly from Notepad to the folder or save it from notepad to somewhere else and then copy it to the User Styles folder.

As I recall this was mainly created by changing the curve to Linear (which I do often), applying Auto Levels (Set in preferences to work on the RGB channels), increasing saturation, adding Highlight recovery and some Clarity as the starting point.

Then playing with the other settings and sliders for a few seconds until it looked about right in terms of balance.

Obviously you will have a better idea of what it should look like and my WB tweak could be entirely wrong for the image! But it looked slightly better to me.

I have a more extreme version with an adjustment layer to take things further but I'm thinking that starts to look a little too much like overprocessing. You may of course feel the same about this set of adjustments! I have to say I'm not a regular editor files from a 5D3 and a more subtle touch might be beneficial.


I think I may go and dig out some challenging shots I took about 4 years ago to see how this Style works for them compared to the current "as processed" state which, iirc, may be V6 or perhaps V7 Capture One.

I hope this is of some interest.


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Re: Dehaze equivalent?

Postby MikeFromMesa » Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:38 pm

Hi Grant,

Thank you. You must have put in some time and effort to create the file.

Some comments for others who may wish to try this.

1) The appropriate location on the Mac is /Library/Application Support/Capture One/Styles, and
2) The file needs to be saved as plain text and needs the suffix costyle,

You can then apply the style by selecting it from the Adjustments -> Styles menu.

I have tried this on some recent photos and the effect is dramatic, perhaps a bit too dramatic for my taste, and I will play around with the settings to see if I can create something with a bit less flair and pop. You have done an astonishing good job with very little time and I am very grateful. I do not want you to think otherwise or that I do not realize how much effort you put into this. As I said it is a bit dramatic for me and I will try for something more subtle but I would never have known where to go to to do something like this without your help and I thank you again.

I will pull out some old and hazy photos and see how this style looks when applied and I will post the results as well. What would be best is if there was some way to apply a style with some kind of slider so it would be possible to adjust the impact as photos vary so much and the effect of this style can be a bit over-powering on some photos. I guess that suggestion was meant for the C1 developers as something like this could be added to the product and be very useful. Perhaps there is already a way to adjust the impact of styles and that is something I will look at later today.

I first applied this to an image I took from the top of a high promontory looking over a very large valley full of trees and far mountains in the central part of Arizona (where we sometimes go to get away from the oppressive summer heat) and it certainly changed the look of the image. The haze (which was not too noticeable because this was the mountains, not the real desert) mostly cleared up and the photo popped in an amazing way but, as I said, was a bit over-powering.

Thank you again and I will see what I can do with this. I had not even noticed that there was a folder full of styles and I will also have to play around with that to see what I can do with some of my more recent photos. I am grateful for your help and for pointing me in this direction. Today should be an interesting educational experience for me.
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