Separating Variants

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Separating Variants

Postby AndrewJohnSimpson » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:38 pm

On Capture One 12 (Mac)


I like to use variants

I would like to have the different "variants" organised in separate folders.

I can not figure out how to do this. The variants are glued together move together.


Can the variants be separated ?

Example - a Variant with (1) Colour version and (2) Black + white version in to Colour Folder and B+W Folder
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Re: Separating Variants

Postby Ian3 » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:48 pm

The only way to do this is using smart albums. So you could for instance have a keyword BW attached to your black and white variants, and you can then get C1 to put just the black and white ones in a smart album. (Or you could give all BW images a green tag, or whatever). But other than that, no - Capture One keeps all variants of the same image together.

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Re: Separating Variants

Postby IanL » Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:36 pm

I see you have the answer. If a feature where you can manually put variants into different manual albums is something you would like to see may I suggest that you open a support case to request it. The more formal requests they get the better.
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Re: Separating Variants

Postby Class A » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:30 am

AndrewJohnSimpson wrote:Can the variants be separated ?

No (as others have remarked as well).

I feel that's a design flaw in C1 and the workaround using metadata and smart albums is entirely unsatisfactory given how inefficiently C1 filters for metadata.

One shouldn't be forced to come up with attributes only to seperate image variants anyhow.

I echo the recommendation to open a support case to create a respective feature request.
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Re: Separating Variants

Postby ben_US » Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:11 pm

In Capture One parlance, a 'variant' is a specific set of rendering instructions for a given source file. Every image has at least one variant. When you create a new variant, you are creating a new set of rendering instructions (say, a B&W conversion). Thus, when you move the file to a new folder (disk directory), the instruction set goes along with it, be it for one, two, or 80 variants. To have multiple variants of the same image in different folders, you'd need multiple copies of the source image file. This can be done by copying via drag and drop (while holding cmd on Mac, shift on Win). Then, just delete the variants in the new folders that you don't want.

When it comes to the virtual organization tools in Capture One documents, Albums contain images (and images contain variants), and Smart Albums contain variants.
Please make a support case for Technical Support with Capture One software:
http://support.phaseone.com and click on Contact Support, then select Technical Support.
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Re: Separating Variants

Postby IanL » Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:56 pm

ben_US wrote:When it comes to the virtual organization tools in Capture One documents, Albums contain images (and images contain variants), and Smart Albums contain variants.


Thanks for the explanation - it is good for everyone to have an understanding of what we have.

What we would like (those of us that want to place our variants in different albums) is for Albums to be the same as Smart Albums - except that you can choose arbitrary images to be in the Album.

I very much appreciate Smart Albums and often use them. However, for basic organizational purposes I want to be able to create arbitrary Albums and manually place specific versions of images in them. For example I belong to a photo club they have a web site with a banner that requires a specific cropping aspect ratio. They also have competitions. I create Albums to hold the images I have submitted to those various purposes in many cases I create additional variants to hold the edits for various requirements - crop aspect ratio, B&W, high contract etc. I want to be able to place the specific variant in the Album that corresponds to that purpose. Having all the variants in the Album is not organizationally helpful. This is just an example there are many other scenarios where this applies.

Yes, I am aware of the work around of using keywords and Smart Albums. I sometimes use that work around. But that is all it is - a work around. Keywords and other metadata for for finding things. Not for organization. Albums are for organizing not for searching. I realize there is some overlap there but bottom line is I do not want my Controlled Vocabulary Keyword library polluted by a work around that should be supported by organization features of my DAM.

If Phase one wants to create a new thing - a Collection or a Bag or a Widget - that lets me place specific variants inside them arbitrarily that I'm fine with that. If they want to change Albums to support that I'm fine with that too (my preference actually). I do however want a way to for arbitrary collections of specific variants of my images.
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Re: Separating Variants

Postby Class A » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:42 pm

ben_US wrote:In Capture One parlance, a 'variant' is a specific set of rendering instructions for a given source file.

Yes, in that sense a C1 "variant" is very similar to a "virtual copy" in Lightroom.

They both share the same RAW data but support different variants of an image due to the differing rendering instructions.

ben_US wrote:Thus, when you move the file to a new folder (disk directory), the instruction set goes along with it, be it for one, two, or 80 variants.

We are not talking about moving files to different folders.

We are talking about moving images to different albums.

There is no reason to keep all variants glued to each other. The variants are not representing files in folders, they represent images (which just happen to share the same RAW data).

It really doesn't matter where the RAW file is with respect to variants in albums.

ben_US wrote:To have multiple variants of the same image in different folders, you'd need multiple copies of the source image file.

That would be a wasteful approach to supporting multiple renderings of the same RAW file.

There is no need to have multiple copies of the same RAW file as there is no need to support variants in different physical file system folders. All we are asking for is for variants to be supported in Albums (which have no physical folder-structured representation on the regular user file system).

ben_US wrote:When it comes to the virtual organization tools in Capture One documents, Albums contain images (and images contain variants), and Smart Albums contain variants.

Yes, that's the current approach but there is no good reason to make such a distinction between Albums and Smart Albums.

The current approach is forcing users to use workarounds for the simple, straightforward and very common use case of separating variants into different containers (here "Albums), without involving the need to invent artificial metadata differences and without involving inefficient querying as to which image is in which Smart Album.
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