Sharpening and Colour Adjustments - question or improvement

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Sharpening and Colour Adjustments - question or improvement

Postby Dinarius » Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:28 pm

Question 1.

In Lightroom, holding down the Alt key while clicking on any of the tools in the Detail (Sharpening) tab causes the screen to to grey.

This allows one to see the effects of each slider very clearly.

It is indispensable in checking how much Masking is being applied.

Am I right in thinking that this is not a feature in C1?

Given that the Clarity slider in C1 is much more complex than LR, should I be considering that instead?

Question 2.

A fantastic feature in Lightroom is the ability to Click and Drag on a colour when in the HSL tab. You can then adjust Hue, Saturation or Lightness in an instant and very accurately.

I don't think that Click and Drag is in C1. It would be great to have it.

Question 3.

While there are inbuilt profiles for many camera models, a Camera Neutral profile, where an untouched RAW file appears without any C1 input, would be nice.

Question 4.

I was told that the size of the Spot removal circle could be adjusted just the [ and ] keys. I'm Windows 8 and they don't work for me. Does this feature need to be activated in Preferences or something?

Thanks.

D.

Ps. First impressions... The Colour Control feature makes C1 worth the price alone. But, the above additions would great - if they're not already there! 8)
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Re: Sharpening and Colour Adjustments - question or improvement

Postby Paul_Steunebrink » Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:41 pm

A1. Your thinking is correct (it is not a feature in CO7). The Clarity tool is sure something to check out.

A2. I suggest you take a look at the Color Editor.

A3. I am not sure I understand the nature of a Camera Neutral profile.

A4. The left and right bracket for adjusting the size of the spot removal tool does work on Mac but not on Windows, as far as I could verify.
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Re: Sharpening and Colour Adjustments - question or improvement

Postby Christian Gruner » Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:18 pm

A3: You can set the Filmcurve to "Linear response" and the ICC profile to Effects -> "No color Correction".
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Re: Sharpening and Colour Adjustments - question or improvement

Postby Peter » Sat Aug 30, 2014 9:58 am

Thank you thank you Christian!

A3: You have produced the answer to a very lively topic that Drew shut down(!). But why is the 'no colour processing' option so well hidden in Cap1?

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Re: Sharpening and Colour Adjustments - question or improvement

Postby Keith Reeder » Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:23 am

I imagine that it's because most folk want Capture One's colour processing, Peter.
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Re: Sharpening and Colour Adjustments - question or improvement

Postby SFA » Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:42 am

Keith Reeder wrote:I imagine that it's because most folk want Capture One's colour processing, Peter.


Yep.

Or their adjusted version of it according to preference. Once set it would become the normal process and alternatives would only be required in unusual circumstances.

That said the thread that Peter mentioned had interesting comparison sets. When shooting under artificial light the resulting variances between the software presentations (in my browser) were distinctly different to those in the image shot in daylight. One might suggest that the rather strong vs. "balanced" results were almost reversed in the natural daylight shot. (Not just the colours but the overall effect of the processing). I think it was a very interesting example of the sort of issues digital processing produces and allows us to manipulate.

That said I had entirely forgotten about the "Effects" options although working with a Linear Response "curve" is something I have started to use since I saw a blog post about it earlier this year.


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Re: Sharpening and Colour Adjustments - question or improvement

Postby Keith Reeder » Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:31 pm

SFA wrote:working with a Linear Response "curve" is something I have started to use since I saw a blog post about it earlier this year.

To what advantage, Grant?
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Re: Sharpening and Colour Adjustments - question or improvement

Postby SFA » Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:44 pm

Keith Reeder wrote:
SFA wrote:working with a Linear Response "curve" is something I have started to use since I saw a blog post about it earlier this year.

To what advantage, Grant?


In certain situations, by no means all, going back to no extended profile can sometimes make it easier to extract details from creating colour separations which seem otherwise to be lost to some extent in pre-profiled images.

Mostly I have no desire to do that and would much prefer that the application I am using reads my mind and gives me most if not all of the result I wish for. The impression I got the first time I used C1 (version 5) was exactly that compared to my then favourite converter. I could get the results I wanted with the other but it was slower and took more effort. That said there are time when I find its facilities very useful and more direct than C1. But C1 is my primary tool.

There is a video from earlier in the year that covers the potential benefits of Linear as a colour control tool and the principles presented make sense to me where regular profiling leaves difficult challenges unresolved.

That's not to say there is no way around the challenge using regular profiles and editing tools but if it's tricky to double guess the effects they will have then going back to the Linear Profile (and maybe removing the colour adjustments effect) could help by allowing one to start completely anew.

One slightly obscure use is for local adjustments related to colour. Starting with no colour profile one can add local adjustments solely to the parts of the image one wants to change as well as just the colour(s) one wants to affect. So, for example, if you have an area of an image where the colour are very similar using normal adjustments taking them back to basics and no adjustment may alone provide greater separation which can then be controlled more readily with a couple of local adjustments.

The brown dog/brown sofa in the other post seems to be an example where the subject and the background can be better separated by starting with no preset colour profile. But I may have missed any number of alternative approaches.

Does any of that fit with things you have tried out?


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Re: Sharpening and Colour Adjustments - question or improvement

Postby Keith Reeder » Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:57 pm

Thanks Grant - definite food for thought there.

To be honest, colour fidelity per se isn't a major concern for me: even though as want my bird images to represent how the bird looks in reality, I'm aspiring to something slightly "more" than just reality, and Capture One easily delivers the kind of starting point I want, given my intended end point.

And even when I'm shooting sport (rugby, for example) I generally find that Capture One's default skin tone rendering is close enough to what I want to see that I usually only need (say) a tiny HSL adjustment to the red channel to be done - if I need to make an adjustment at all.

Interesting points you make about extracting detail from creating colour separations, though: detail is important to bird photographers, but I have to say that I've never been less than satisfied by the latest incarnation of Capture One in that regard; and by making judicious use of the Structure slider in the Clarity tool, I can pull all of the detail out of an image that I could reasonably want (providing it's there in the first place, of course! ;)).

I'll need to investigate your idea, so thanks for the inspiration, Grant.
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Re: Sharpening and Colour Adjustments - question or improvement

Postby Peter » Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:40 pm

Very interesting exchanges, Keith and Grant.

My take on all this is that Phase-processed Cap1 outputs are excellent if you are seeking 'colourful' outputs. But if you try to tone them down by 'subtracting' selective tonal features the end result is often not what I had hoped for - i.e. not very realistic looking.

On the other hand, it is relatively easy to build on a flat, neutral colour 'negative'. This 'additive' approach just seems a more natural process than the 'subtractive' one that I find I have to adopt with Cap1.

So now, thanks to Christian's input I am rejigging my Cap1 workflow. Initial results are very encouraging. To my eyes the outputs are much more realistic and retain the Cap1 3-D look.

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