Plus Shaped RAW Conversion Artifacts

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Plus Shaped RAW Conversion Artifacts

Postby Eric Nepean » Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:35 pm

I have noticed that in RAW conversion of some RW2 files from Panasonic G5, raw conversion is generating "+" shaped artifacts - they look like dust at low magnification, at 1:1 its absolutely unusable. I have noticed on two quite different Macs, on two different accounts on the same Mac. I have opened a support case. Here is an image of what I see, plus URL in case my embedded image does not work.

Image
http://www.pbase.com/ericvalk/image/156755118/original
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Re: Plus Shaped RAW Conversion Artifacts

Postby TAOGde » Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:33 pm

could it be hotpixel there ar marked from the C1 engine?
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Re: Plus Shaped RAW Conversion Artifacts

Postby Eric Nepean » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:29 am

Thank you Torsten, you made me think, and I found something.

I too was initially thinking it was a pixel problem, but I checked a couple at random and they were OK, so I assumed not. But from your comment, I checked a bit more carefully, and I found from a sequence of 35 taken over 10 minutes, about 1/3 were affected - irregularly, not in sequence. I then discovered that some with 1/8s exposure were affected, and some not. All with longer exposure were affected. Faster than 1/8s, none were affected. All images affected had the spots in the same location.

I checked all 12 images that were affected in Silkypix and in Aperture (same RAW file), there is no hint of a problem. So the initial conditions for the problem seems to stem from the long exposure and some sensor characteristic, but I don't understand why do they look so bad in CaptureOne when other tools seem to be able to handle it invisibly?
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Re: Plus Shaped RAW Conversion Artifacts

Postby Drew » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:07 pm

It's a Hot Pixel.
Use the "Single Pixel" slider to remove them.
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Re: Plus Shaped RAW Conversion Artifacts

Postby Eric Nepean » Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:02 am

Drew wrote:It's a Hot Pixel.
Use the "Single Pixel" slider to remove them.


Hi Drew, I agree with the the comment that manual removal of hot pixels is superior to automatic removal, especially for an advance professional tool.

However, even when I slide the "single Pixel" slider all the way to 100% (maximum), where the high level of noise reduction causes the image to loose detail, the little crosses from the hot pixel remains, although the light area surrounding has disappeared. But the hot pixels are still quite visible, even at low magnification.
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Re: Plus Shaped RAW Conversion Artifacts

Postby Drew » Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:44 am

Well, we'll look into but at this time I can only suggest that you ask Panasonic why it is their camera renders a Hot Pixel with 5 effected pixels rather than just the one.
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Re: Plus Shaped RAW Conversion Artifacts

Postby Eric Nepean » Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:26 pm

Drew wrote:Well, we'll look into but at this time I can only suggest that you ask Panasonic why it is their camera renders a Hot Pixel with 5 effected pixels rather than just the one.


Hi Drew

I appreciate you quick response and your frustration in a deluge of new users and requests, but asking such a question would get me a predictable answer: "The problem does not occur in Silkpix (Panasonic's recommended tool), it does not occur in Apple Aperture why not use one of those tools?"

I have some interesting observations which may help CaptureOne investigate:

1) I see the problem also in DxO Optics Pro 9 and in NoiseNinja (demo versions). In both of those tools, the dead pixels show as quite irregular - none of them are exactly plus shaped 5 pixels as as they ALL are in CaptureOne. (I leave Adobe out right now because I don't know specifically about that tool)

2) In CaptureOne as I move the details slider to about 30% or 40%, the white area surrounding the dark crosses disappear. At some slightly higher level, the dark crosses show on the screen, although when I make a TIFF export, the dark crosses are not there. Why does the screen show what is not in the export? (doesn't help editing btw)
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Re: Plus Shaped RAW Conversion Artifacts

Postby Drew » Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:12 pm

Eric Nepean wrote:"The problem does not occur in Silkpix (Panasonic's recommended tool)


That may be, but it doesn't change the fact that the errors are indeed in your file. It be interesting to know why/how and if they could perhaps share the specifics about how to properly remove the artifacts with others.

Eric Nepean wrote:Why does the screen show what is not in the export? (doesn't help editing btw)


That's a hard one to answer when this is such an atypical error and a conflict from the camera/file that we're trying to remedy. I can only say that it'll take more investigation to understand and I hope we find the time to do so soon.
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Re: Plus Shaped RAW Conversion Artifacts

Postby NN635397406576564700UL » Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:46 pm

I have the same problems with my Panasonic G6. Exactly the same artifacts. Nothing can be seen in SILKYPIX, Adobe Lightroom. The Deadpixel are caused by software. This is my opinion.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/e4lw0emlc8ryxcv/Artefakte.jpg
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Re: Plus Shaped RAW Conversion Artifacts

Postby Drew » Wed Aug 06, 2014 7:23 am

NN635397406576564700UL wrote: The Deadpixel are caused by software. This is my opinion.


And you're welcome to that opinion. However the fact remains we simply do not invent this anomaly, it is there in the file.
As stated, it seems there is room for improvement and we're looking into it.
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Re: Plus Shaped RAW Conversion Artifacts

Postby NN635397406576564700UL » Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:26 am

You need a photo in Rw2, then please to download it from my dropbox. I hope that a solution will be found. Thank you.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j6cf9futaxg90 ... -08-14.RW2
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Re: Plus Shaped RAW Conversion Artifacts

Postby NN635397406576564700UL » Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:07 am

Hello, Eric
I read your post with defective pixels by Lumix G6. I have the same problem. Did you find a solution? Please write me back. My email is: vassile@chello.at
Sorry my bad English. Thank you.

Regards
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Re: Plus Shaped RAW Conversion Artifacts

Postby Eric Nepean » Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:17 am

Hi Willy
Sorry for my delay in responding, I didn't notice your two posts. I have abandoned using Capture One Pro because of this issue and the GM1 lack of support, and so I don't visit the forum much anymore.

Thanks for the comment on Lightroom, that was the one tool I was not able to check.

One can improve the RAW conversion situation situation by doing a "Pixel Refresh" on the camera, I think it is located on the second last screen of the setup menu on Panasonic cameras - this reduces the number of hot pixels, but it did not eliminate all of them all in my case. However the remaining hot pixels still come out looking poorly. I think the only option if you have a Panasonic camera with hot Pixels, is to do the RAW conversion in another tool - I am using Silkypix for RAW conversion of selected images and Aperture for other editing and sorting; it sounds like you are using Lightroom for the same things I am using Aperture for.

Another complication for me is that I can only handle my GM1 images in COP by editing the EXIF tag to read GX7, but now that I have a GX7 this plan does not work very well anymore.
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