Keywording? Welcome to the 1990's

Discussions, questions, comments and suggestions regarding Capture One PRO, Capture One DB and Capture One Express 8x and 7.x

Keywording? Welcome to the 1990's

Postby NNN634523208431475184 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:52 am

I have been working through the demo of Capture One 7 for several days and I find it unique and powerful. There are two areas where I would like to see improvement.

One of them is the ability to apply cross-processing to color images. I can do this in Photoshop, but Lightroom had a great facility for this, but I can live without this in CO7.

KEYWORDING is deplorable. So far I have nested thousands of the same terms on images by assuming I could drag images onto keywords in the filter list. I have also crashed the app so many times trying to correct this issue. Once I got it fixed, I again tried to keyword, but the ability to apply the metadata copy to several images is simply terrible and results in seemingly infinite nested keywords again. Lightroom at least does that part better, and a LOT better. Can we work in this? It is the thing that keeps me with lightroom, as keywords are a critical part of my workflow.
-sed
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Re: Keywording? Welcome to the 1990's

Postby Jim MSP » Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:04 am

NNN634523208431475184 wrote:... It is the thing that keeps me with lightroom, as keywords are a critical part of my workflow.


Try Media Pro. I use it only for my photos, and it works fine. It handles keywords and transmits them to Capture One quite nicely via external sidecars. Lightroom can read these as well; but I find that the user interface of Media Pro is quite superior to that of LR (personal opinion). I use LR about 20% of the time for raw conversion, but I tend to start these days in MP.
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Re: Key wording? Welcome to the 1990's

Postby Paul Silk » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:06 am

NNN634523208431475184 wrote:I have been working through the demo of Capture One 7 for several days and I find it unique and powerful. There are two areas where I would like to see improvement.

One of them is the ability to apply cross-processing to color images. I can do this in Photoshop, but Lightroom had a great facility for this, but I can live without this in CO7.



If you talking about Lightrooms Presets then there is no reason to live without it as CO already has this but they are called Styles and apply a preset which you can then tweak your self just like LR. CO comes with a basic set of built in styles already but it is easy to add more by searching and downloading them from the web.

Image

As to key wording I am with Jim and much prefer to use MP than LR4, in fact my latest camera is not as yet supported by CO7 so I will have to go back to LR4 for processing much to my dissapointment.
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Re: Keywording? Welcome to the 1990's

Postby NNN634523208431475184 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:17 pm

thanks guys for the posts.

I refuse to purchase another $200+ package to handle key-wording because of CO7 can't do it well. Also, Media Pro seems very dated to me for some reason. Needs a UI refresh, but I agree the tools in there are very nice. To compete against Lightroom, I think they should continue to move tools to CO7.

As for the Styles, they are very nice. However, I need to understand more on what settings they alter so I can make adjustments in case I want a more subtle effect, or a different tone.

-sed
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Re: Keywording? Welcome to the 1990's

Postby Jim MSP » Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:59 pm

NNN634523208431475184 wrote:....To compete against Lightroom, I think they should continue to move tools to CO7.

-sed


Personally, I prefer two software packages that are dedicated to their own functions, but are designed to communicate smoothly. That way, each can advance without causing the other one to hold it back, or introduce errors or delays. As I see it now, CO7 still has a lot of work to be done on it to get its processing stable, complete, and efficient. I don't want to see a major db function introduced which would impact its speed, efficiency, and reliability. I use LR 4.3rc now at times, and it is really quite a bit slower than the previous 3.6 (and I have a new pc). I don't want CO to be like that.

Likewise, I know that every time you introduce new functionality you should completely test every module again, even if you hadn't coded changes into it. I think PO still has a lot to learn about properly testing software before release, and a more complicated CO with an enhanced db function will simply slow everything down.
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Re: Keywording? Welcome to the 1990's

Postby SFA » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:56 pm

NNN634523208431475184 wrote:As for the Styles, they are very nice. However, I need to understand more on what settings they alter so I can make adjustments in case I want a more subtle effect, or a different tone.

-sed


I'm assuming here that V7 is similar to V6 when dealing with Styles - I have not read anything, so far as I remember, that suggests otherwise.

How would you like the information displayed?

If you hover the cursor over a preset of style a box opens advising which tools/sliders values have been modified or are set (since a Style can also include meta data for example.).

To see the full detail, select an unmodified image and apply a style of your choice.

Then go to the Adjustments Clipboard and "Copy" the settings to see which tools have been adjusted in the edit session.

Go to the tools themselves to see the adjustment values.

If you tend to work with the same styles regularly I would guess further tweaks to a style become second nature but in the early days being pointed to the changes made from the 'default' settings has value. Beyond what is already possible I'm not sure what one could add that really improves accessibility to the adjustments without becoming more of an overhead than is really required after a little experience and experiment.

So my enhancement vision sort of stops at that point and I would be interested to see the ideas that other can offer.


The only thing I can think of is to have a dynamic "Styles" tab that auto populates with all of the tools currently changed from 'default' so that all current adjustments can be found in one place but I'm not really sure how much use that wouold really be and you would also need do clearly identify and define what the 'default' values are. Would they, for example, include or exclude pre-set RAW conversion parameters for noise levels?

I'm looking forward to ideas on this one.

Grant Perkins
Last edited by SFA on Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Keywording? Welcome to the 1990's

Postby NNN634523208431475184 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:12 am

Thanks for all the great comments on this thread. As I am new to this software, it is refreshing to see an active community helping out noobs.

I will try out several of the things you folks have suggested.

-sed
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