problem connection P40+ and mac book air

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problem connection P40+ and mac book air

Postby fabrizio cicconi » Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:45 am

HAllo,

I bought a Mac book air 11" for to connect my P40+ on the computer out to the studio too.
I've a thunderbolt Fire wire 800 adapter, but it doesn't recognize the Back, In the back everything work and the fire wire connection is active, but computer say that P40+ is not available...
The thunderbolt adapter work perfect with other HD.
I tryed to connect the DB to the HD and the HD with the Mac, but when the HD is connect to the DB the mac disconnect the HD...too complicate?
I hope I explain ... :?
With the other computer with Fire Wire work perfect..

what can I do?

My best.
Fabrizio
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Re: problem connection P40+ and mac book air

Postby Edward51 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:14 pm

are you using the P40 with the battery in the back? even the bigger Macbook Pro's have underpowered Firewire ports so I'm guessing the Macbook Air might not be putting out enough power for the digital back.
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Re: problem connection P40+ and mac book air

Postby fabrizio cicconi » Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:56 pm

Edward51 wrote:are you using the P40 with the battery in the back? even the bigger Macbook Pro's have underpowered Firewire ports so I'm guessing the Macbook Air might not be putting out enough power for the digital back.


Yes mac I tested all, and I know that need power source, With the buttery in the back at the first connection it work, when I shot the back give me an alert " image is not stored, image data is damaged during the transfer."

Or it does'n transfer anything.
The cable is ok becouse I tested in other 2 Mac book pro..
The problem is with mac air...

Thank you.
Fabrizio
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Re: problem connection P40+ and mac book air

Postby fabrizio cicconi » Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:06 pm

I found the problem maybe...

if I use only the battery back, it's work, probally the thunderbolt have not enough power...
in this case is terrible... :? :| :(
Have you any advice?

Fabrizio
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Re: problem connection P40+ and mac book air

Postby MidWestTech » Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:52 pm

Fabrizio,

Make sure the setting on the Phase back is to be powered from the internal battery, not the laptop.

I think the setting on the back is Menu -> Configuration -> Power Source -> Battery. If it is set otherwise, this could be causing your problem. You should always have it set this way when shooting to a laptop and should always use a freshly charged battery that is in good condition for best results.

Another option to boost up the bus on some laptops is to add an external battery to the laptop which tricks it in to thinking it is plugged in and has more power to offer to the bus. I have had good success with the HyperJuice batteries. I can not speak to how well this may work on an Air, I have only used it for this purpose on MacBookPro.
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Re: problem connection P40+ and mac book air

Postby fabrizio cicconi » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:53 pm

MidWestTech wrote:Fabrizio,

Make sure the setting on the Phase back is to be powered from the internal battery, not the laptop.

I think the setting on the back is Menu -> Configuration -> Power Source -> Battery. If it is set otherwise, this could be causing your problem. You should always have it set this way when shooting to a laptop and should always use a freshly charged battery that is in good condition for best results.

Another option to boost up the bus on some laptops is to add an external battery to the laptop which tricks it in to thinking it is plugged in and has more power to offer to the bus. I have had good success with the HyperJuice batteries. I can not speak to how well this may work on an Air, I have only used it for this purpose on MacBookPro.


Thank a lot, I will need a lot of fresh DB battery... thenk you for advice "HyperJuice batteries" I will find it, and I will ask to my Mac dealer...
THNK My best!
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Re: problem connection P40+ and mac book air

Postby Edward51 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:53 pm

i bet its taht the thunderbolt is underpowered.
for external laptop batteries - i recommend battery geek
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Re: problem connection P40+ and mac book air

Postby fabrizio cicconi » Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:41 pm

Edward51 wrote:i bet its taht the thunderbolt is underpowered.
for external laptop batteries - i recommend battery geek


Sorry, but I've a question:
Have I to use the external battery besides the normal alimentation power?
A double alimentation?
Becouse I tested with the mac connected to the normal electricity not only with the internal battery...
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Re: problem connection P40+ and mac book air

Postby MidWestTech » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:23 pm

I'm sorry Fabrizio, let me clarify.

If you are not using the laptop plugged in with the power cord it will often attempt to operate using less power to conserve the internal battery. Plugging it in to the wall or an external battery keep it from falling into the lower power / battery saving mode.
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Re: problem connection P40+ and mac book air

Postby fabrizio cicconi » Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:57 pm

MidWestTech wrote:I'm sorry Fabrizio, let me clarify.

If you are not using the laptop plugged in with the power cord it will often attempt to operate using less power to conserve the internal battery. Plugging it in to the wall or an external battery keep it from falling into the lower power / battery saving mode.


Yes I always use my laptop plugged in with power cord otherwise does the fire wire have not enough power...
Is strange that thunderbolt have not power with all the connections...
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Re: problem connection P40+ and mac book air

Postby MidWestTech » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:56 pm

It is strange but at the same time I understand how some of the Thunderbolt specs have gotten so different from what the published capabilities are. I don't pretend to be an electrical engineer or a hardware developer but here it is to the best of my understanding:

When Thunderbolt was first developed it was a port connected to a full size PCIe card. This allowed a far higher bus power output. The max theoretical bus output on a tower running PCIe1 is 75 watts and PCIe2 is twice that at 150watts. Once that power hits the card and the components on the card do their thing it will draw off a certain amount of that power. Intel spec'ed Thunderbolt at 10 watts. So where did all the power go? I have no idea. But I can tell you that making sure that a laptop could output enough bus power to run thunderbolt devices, and chains of thunderbolt devices was a huge consideration in limiting it to 10 watts. There is no way that any laptop could put out 40 watts x 5 devices chained and still have enough power to run itself.

By comparison theoretical power max of other cables are: USB3: 4.5 watts, Firewire 40 watts, ethernet 30 watts, etc.

It still puzzles me that you can run the back off of the internal battery, have the laptop plugged in and are still having issues other than to think that the firewire connection is starved for power in some way.

Just out of curiosity, how long is the firewire cable you are using?
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Re: problem connection P40+ and mac book air

Postby fabrizio cicconi » Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:47 am

MidWestTech wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how long is the firewire cable you are using?


4 mt..., the thunderbolt port run normal with an external HD.
but I've seen a topic, is a thunderbolt problem..
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=10884&p=51339&hilit=thunderbold#p51339
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11023&p=51532&hilit=thunderbold#p51532

I' ve thinking...is there any reduction fire wire 400 to USB3?
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Re: problem connection P40+ and mac book air

Postby MidWestTech » Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:48 pm

According to this knowledge base article, it looks like you might need a repeater: http://www.phaseone.com/Search/Article. ... nguageid=1

Before doing that you might want to try a different adapter or different firewire 400 to 800 cable to make sure one of those isn't the problem as well.
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Re: problem connection P40+ and mac book air

Postby fabrizio cicconi » Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:09 pm

MidWestTech wrote:According to this knowledge base article, it looks like you might need a repeater: http://www.phaseone.com/Search/Article. ... nguageid=1

Before doing that you might want to try a different adapter or different firewire 400 to 800 cable to make sure one of those isn't the problem as well.


I tried a different Fire wire cable not a different adapter,..
but with the battery DB setting all work good... the problem is that the DB need a lot of battery...

Thank you.

My best.
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