Credo 80 LCD has digital line through center!!

Questions, comments and suggestions regarding Leaf Credo series digital camera backs.

Credo 80 LCD has digital line through center!!

Postby NNN634550310067388135 » Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:25 pm

I just purchased a new Credo 80 back and when viewing the images on the LCD, it appears as if there is a very faint digital line running down the center, vertically seperating two equal sides. Looks like if you took a piece of paper and folded it in half with one side a slightly different brightness and hue than the other. It is very faint, but there. Mamiya wants me to send them the back so they can send it to Isreal for repair. It's brand new!!! A month wait and how much for shipping insurance???!

Is this a normal phenomenon on the lcd??? It is faint, and after the image and LCD is on for a few seconds, the line usually dissapears and it is not visible in the files on Phase one Capture Pro 6 or 7. I did update my firmware.

Would you send it back or live with it?

Thanks
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Re: Credo 80 LCD has digital line through center!!

Postby Drew » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:29 am

NNN634550310067388135 wrote:Is this a normal phenomenon on the lcd???


It's possible.
Without seeing the file it is hard to comment accurately but it should have been explained to you that the preview you see on the back is just that, a preview. An ~80MB RAW file takes a long time to completely render on a digital back. As we imagine no end user wants to wait 10+ seconds to see the image they just captured, we shorten the time it takes to display the image by showing you a preview.
The preview file is 100% accurate when it comes to sharpness, detail, aspect ratio, etc. However, due to the nature of a RAW file it's not possible to process the file completely in the back and as a result, under certain conditions, you may see something on the back that will be accounted for in the software. It should be subtle but, depending on how the back is being used, it may be completely normal for it to be there.
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Re: Credo 80 LCD has digital line through center!!

Postby NNN634550310067388135 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:02 pm

Thanks Drew.

I had a similar problem with both my ZD and My Aptus II 7 backs, but not on the lcd. It was actually in the images. When you made a high contrast b&w image in RAW with Capture 1, you had a visible line down the middle where they stitched the sensors together. One half was darker than the other. When you converted b&w in Photoshop as a Tiff the problem dissapeared. I don't know if what is happening to my LCD having that split line is something that is just part of the electronics or something that is worthy of spending the time and money to ship back to Isreal. I have a feeling its just the way it was designed. It doesn't bother me at all, but I don't want to be out of my warranty period should it get worse.

What do you think??
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Re: Credo 80 LCD has digital line through center!!

Postby Drew » Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:55 am

Again, without seeing the file it is hard to comment accurately.
I created a support case for you yesterday after this post, you should have received an email from Phase One. Have a look for it and get back to us with the requested info and we'll be able to let you know the best way to proceed.
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Re: Credo 80 LCD has digital line through center!!

Postby PhaseoneUser103493 » Tue May 14, 2013 8:36 pm

I have never worked with your camera system but in 2007 or so Leaf had a 65-75 back that had this issue. A small group of us discussed and measured but our results were not verified by Leaf. The conclusion was the sensor is not actually full frame it is 2 smaller sensors that uses software to stitch the image together. Answers why left and right sides never matched perfectly for color or density, similar to issues with Apple monitors. It made sense to me but no one at the higher levels of Leaf would confirm although a lower lever person confirmed this not on the record of course.

Thanks Dave

Ps this line is through the longer side of the file correct?
Last edited by PhaseoneUser103493 on Tue May 14, 2013 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Credo 80 LCD has digital line through center!!

Postby NNN634550310067388135 » Tue May 14, 2013 10:38 pm

Yes, It is through the longer side, and I sent the back to Mamiya in Israel and they sent it back to me. The line is still there, but it only shows up in the preview, not the actual files. I have kind of forgotten about it since it doesn't affect the final images which are very nice to say the least. Looks like large format film. Thanks
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Re: Credo 80 LCD has digital line through center!!

Postby yaya » Wed May 15, 2013 11:59 am

PhaseoneUser103493 wrote:I have never worked with your camera system but in 2007 or so Leaf had a 65-75 back that had this issue. A small group of us discussed and measured but our results were not verified by Leaf. The conclusion was the sensor is not actually full frame it is 2 smaller sensors that uses software to stitch the image together. Answers why left and right sides never matched perfectly for color or density, similar to issues with Apple monitors. It made sense to me but no one at the higher levels of Leaf would confirm although a lower lever person confirmed this not on the record of course.

Thanks Dave

Ps this line is through the longer side of the file correct?


Not sure where your information is coming from. However the sensors are NOT made out of 2 smaller sensors as it is not possible to physically stitch sensors without leaving a visible gap; such a gap might be acceptable for applications such as astronomy but not for the more common applications.

The term "full frame" refers to the way in which the data is being read off the sensor and not to its structure. Full frame readout as opposed to Interline readout. Large sensors are made as a single piece using s stepper

The issue you refer to was known as "centrefold" and was related to using wide angle symmetrical view camera lenses with high resolution sensors. It was well documented and addressed through a software solution: custom lens calibration and later on improved algorithms which were implemented in both Leaf Capture and Capture One

As Drew has already pointed out, some of these advanced algorithms cannot be implemented in the back without sacrificing speed, which is why, in certain condition, you may still see such lines on the LCD

Please fee free to contact me directly if you have any further questions

BR

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Re: Credo 80 LCD has digital line through center!!

Postby PhaseoneUser103493 » Wed May 15, 2013 5:05 pm

Ok as I said, this could not be verified by upper management....but it was verified by apple in Austin Texas repair so it is possible at least on the monitors.
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Re: Credo 80 LCD has digital line through center!!

Postby yaya » Thu May 16, 2013 5:54 pm

PhaseoneUser103493 wrote:Ok as I said, this could not be verified by upper management....but it was verified by apple in Austin Texas repair so it is possible at least on the monitors.


Not the same technology and not the same manufacturing process so to think that sensors can behave like monitors is a mistake, sorry...
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Re: Credo 80 LCD has digital line through center!!

Postby PhaseoneUser103493 » Thu May 16, 2013 6:20 pm

Ok no problem but unless you are on the project team and not in the marketing department who is to say 100%.
I'm not here to argue, thanks for the help and I hope the people love their backs.

ps. If you were on the project team, you wouldn't be able to say anything, if you are on the marketing team you are going to say something positive, that's your job.

I like the backs though... I owned a p45+ I simply want to understand the software better....
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Re: Credo 80 LCD has digital line through center!!

Postby FredBGG » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:40 am

Center fold and tiles showing slightly different colors have been reposted by quite a few users.
For some it's a line down the center and for some it's a rectangle in one corner.
Often not very visable at default setting, but quite visable if some manipulation is done or at high ISO.
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Re: Credo 80 LCD has digital line through center!!

Postby NNN634550310067388135 » Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:44 pm

Yes, and it shows up in the final print if you use some of the b&w conversions in Silver Effex Pro 2. So you just either have to take out the lines in Photoshop, or don't be so drastic in your conversions.

Also be careful when removing the back for dust cleaning. Mine slipped in my hands and banged against the Mamiya AFD front where the metal clips protrude (that hold in the back). Now I have two permanent marks on the sensor glass! Pretty pissed about it as the whole system is awkward to maneuver. Great images, but not for $39,000.... The DM33 for 8,000.00 (current used price) does just as good if your making a 16x20....... (have prints in museums) I think I over spent a weeeee bit. We think bigger is better, but really, how good are we?????? Yeah 80 megapixels is very nice when you are looking at 100%- like 8x10 film, but I sweat from panic every time I take it out to use.... It's like taking a Ferrari out for a sunday drive in Times Square at rush hour. I'm thinking I might just sell the whole thing with my 9 lenses....
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