EM2 so many problems, now jump to Media Pro?

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EM2 so many problems, now jump to Media Pro?

Postby mister z » Thu May 19, 2011 3:31 am

Anyone?
EM2: I thought using this software was going to be easy by just doing what the instructions say.
Every time I open a catalogue it asks for the file path. Why doesn't it know by now?
I drag folders into the pane, nothing happens. I import files/folders, nothing happens. The 16 processor threads look like they are really doing something, but nothing happens. The EM activity window shows something is supposed to be happening, but nothing ever changes and spins infinitely. When re starting the program, it picks up right where it left off, spinning with the same message i quit. I delete a key word, according to directions, for the entire folder, and it is gone every where except in the keywords of the thumbnails, where I want it to disappear. I have numerous thumbs with icon only, right next to similar files with thumbs. No command helps, like rebuild, which gives me a new spinning clock for eternity. Yet the media preview works. Images are sideways in media preview, and rotate gives another infinite spinning clock. New installs do the same thing. In other words, this software at this point is totally useless and very time consuming.
Any tips? (Let's skip the "rolling eyes" get something else dummy kind of advice please) Mac OSX.6.7
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Re: EM2 so many problems, now jump to Media Pro?

Postby Dave Heap » Thu May 19, 2011 10:29 pm

I've been using EM2 and its predecessors for at least 8 years, with operating systems ranging form OS9 to Snow Leopard and Windows XP. I've never experienced the sort of problems you mention. However, Its clear from your description of your problems that you don't seem to have grasped the basic concepts of working with this program. I'd like to help you, so if you are willing, I'll suggest you try the following steps and get back to me. If these first steps work, I'll then follow up with further help. Try these steps first:

    Forget abut your existing catalogues at this stage. Instead, launch EM2 and open a new blank catalogue.
    Go to "Edit" menu "Thumbnails and Previews". Select "Thumbnail Size: Variable", "Quality High" and uncheck "Use built-in thumbnails" (slower, but better quality). I'd recommend you "Save as Default" for all new catalogues before you press "OK".
    Make sure you have picked the "Thumbnail" view tab and go to "Window" menu "Show View Options". Select your preferred 'Thumbnail size". I use 100 pixels to reduce catalogue size and maximise the number of images. You can change it later, but if you later increase the size, you will need to rebuild existing items to get the bigger thumbnails. I suggest you consider "Save as Default" before closing the "View Options" window.
    I would save the empty catalogue at this stage.
    Now go back to the Finder and select the folder(s) you wish to import. Drag these folder(s) onto the EM2 Dock icon OR the "Thumbnail" pane. Don't drag them to the "Catalog Folders" window. Nothing will happen if you do that.
    You will now see the "rotating gear" icon appear in the bottom Status bar. Click on the "+" icon below the vertical scroll bars and a progress pane will open.
    Don't attempt to do any keyword entry, thumbnail rotation, renaming or anything else until the scanning process has completed. EM has to read all the EXIF data and build (and rotate if the Rotation flag is in the EXIF) all the thumbnails. Instead go to http://www.iview-multimedia.com/downloads/manuals.html and download the IVMP3 manuals. Get yourself a cup of coffee and start reading. These manuals are almost completely relevant to EM2.
    Once the scanning process has completed, save the catalogue. If you were importing from a CD/DVD you can now remove it and insert the next one. Note that each CD/DVD must have a unique name, or all the images will show in the catalogue as being on the one CD/DVD. You cannot change the name of a a read-only medium in the "Catalog Folders" panel. Your only option in this case is to use the Finder to copy all the CD/DVD contents to a hard drive before importing. If you don't have space to keep all your images on-line, you'll need to rewrite the CD/DVDs with unique names before importing.
    Now get back to me and let me know how you got on. I wouldn't jump to Media Pro yet!
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Re: EM2 so many problems, now jump to Media Pro?

Postby mister z » Fri May 20, 2011 5:53 am

I very appreciate this and will get on it as soon as possible.
All the best,

hmm, i read the post in detail. This is precisely how I did
everything you wrote. The crucial difference might be, at this point,
essentially, start over with new catalogue. Why? don't know.
That's why I asked questions.

more later. Have to finish moving everything from dvd to HDD
before I start this whole thing all over again.
That's why I haven't been asking questions recently.

Thanks !
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Re: EM2 so many problems, now jump to Media Pro?

Postby Dave Heap » Fri May 20, 2011 12:30 pm

mister z wrote:The crucial difference might be, at this point,
essentially, start over with new catalogue. Why?

Never seen it before but possibly a catalogue corruption. Also take note not to try to do any annotation/rotation until building finishes. Save often when doing annotation - sometimes you do something you wish you hadn't. And do a small scale trial with a few folders before you add the rest - don't try to add 10,000 items at once.

I look forward to hearing how you go and covering some of your other questions regarding keyword entry/deletion.
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Re: EM2 so many problems, now jump to Media Pro?

Postby mister z » Sat May 21, 2011 2:55 am

Typically what can we expect if we do some activity before all the rendering is done?
Of course, with mine, the rendering is never done so...
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Re: EM2 so many problems, now jump to Media Pro?

Postby Dave Heap » Sat May 21, 2011 1:33 pm

mister z wrote:Typically what can we expect if we do some activity before all the rendering is done?
Of course, with mine, the rendering is never done so...


You will not be able to do keyword entry, thumbnail rotation, renaming or anything else on images that haven't built fully yet. You should not close the document until all building is complete. Are you seeing any progress in the progress pane?

How many images are you importing at a time (hundreds, thousands?) and what type and size are they?
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Re: EM2 so many problems, now jump to Media Pro?

Postby rmoorlag » Sat May 21, 2011 8:00 pm

My experience is that the building of an entirely new catalog can take many hours. What i do is start is in the evening and let the computer do his job the whole night without touching it.

Roelof
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Re: EM2 so many problems, now jump to Media Pro?

Postby mister z » Sat May 21, 2011 8:20 pm

Dave Heap wrote:
You will not be able to do keyword entry, thumbnail rotation, renaming or anything else on images that haven't built fully yet. You should not close the document until all building is complete. Are you seeing any progress in the progress pane?

How many images are you importing at a time (hundreds, thousands?) and what type and size are they?


Yes, I presume you cannot do things on unrendered images as you say, but if one did, like I may have by accident,
i think something more happens than just "try again later"; something like a logjam of irreconcilable
commands, and then halt, not knowing what to do, as I would expect from a microsoft product.

I'll prolly import 4GB at a time (dvd size now on HDD).
All picture files, jpg, psd (~15MB - 300MB), tif, dng, nef.

Gonna try new now on the folder that would not render thumbs.

Thanks for taking an interest. Kinda hoped Phase One would, especially
after all they invested in this software.

Can I move all my keywords from bad catalogue to new?
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Re: EM2 so many problems, now jump to Media Pro?

Postby mister z » Sat May 21, 2011 8:43 pm

Dave Heap wrote:
    Forget abut your existing catalogues at this stage. Instead, launch EM2 and open a new blank catalogue.
    Go to "Edit" menu "Thumbnails and Previews". Select "Thumbnail Size: Variable", "Quality High" and uncheck "Use built-in thumbnails" (slower, but better quality). I'd recommend you "Save as Default" for all new catalogues before you press "OK".
    Make sure you have picked the "Thumbnail" view tab and go to "Window" menu "Show View Options". Select your preferred 'Thumbnail size". I use 100 pixels to reduce catalogue size and maximise the number of images. You can change it later, but if you later increase the size, you will need to rebuild existing items to get the bigger thumbnails. I suggest you consider "Save as Default" before closing the "View Options" window.


Please advise about: not check: "use built in thumbnails".
I've investigated that NEF thumbs are quite big and give adequate quality, based on earlier trials with EM2
and file extraction. Wouldn't that be quick and good, much less work for EM2? But then where would the
thumbs come from for psd's, jpg's? Does NEF pass those along in normal workflow?

Also, does that choice have to match settings for Media Rendering Raw> use embedded thumbs ??
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Re: EM2 so many problems, now jump to Media Pro?

Postby Dave Heap » Mon May 23, 2011 12:30 am

mister z wrote:Please advise about: not check: "use built in thumbnails".
I've investigated that NEF thumbs are quite big and give adequate quality, based on earlier trials with EM2
and file extraction. Wouldn't that be quick and good, much less work for EM2? But then where would the
thumbs come from for psd's, jpg's? Does NEF pass those along in normal workflow?

Also, does that choice have to match settings for Media Rendering Raw> use embedded thumbs ??

If you are happy with the built in thumbnails, that will certainly speed up import. It will build for those that don't have them. Sometimes the built in thumbnails don't render correctly for some files - you can always rebuild them later.

Likewise for the raw ones. The two settings are independent as far as I know.
Last edited by Dave Heap on Mon May 23, 2011 12:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: EM2 so many problems, now jump to Media Pro?

Postby Dave Heap » Mon May 23, 2011 12:40 am

mister z wrote:Can I move all my keywords from bad catalogue to new?

Possible, but not straightforward:
    Needs to be done before importing to new catalogue.
    Have to select a folder at a time.
    "Action" menu "Extract Metadata" annotations to XMP sidecar files in SAME FOLDERS as original images.
    When you import the images into new catalogue, the annotations will be imported too.
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Re: EM2 so many problems, now jump to Media Pro?

Postby mister z » Tue May 24, 2011 9:14 pm

OK I have rendered my first folder into EM2, like you said,
like I did the first time weeks ago as a newbie. It went
fine with only one thumb blank. Who knows why. Anyway,
there is always activity in the activity window, even when I just
open the catalogue to look, something like scanning items.

I had a fuzzy thumb, and I tried "rebuild items". I guess
the image was fuzzy, cuz the others were fine. Yet the
activity window is showing "scanning record" for as long as
I have the catalogue open.

OK I imported my second folder. It actually
goes pretty fast. Everything appears done,
yet there in the activity window, it is
"scanning record #xx" and that's where it
stays. There are 6 to go, and the window
says 2 items in list, one selected. And that's
where it stays. This is what happens all the
time; it stalls is near the end with a few to do.
Yet those few ARE rendered. I see the stalling
file was 400 MB file. Other times? I dont know.
I'm afraid to do anything with the files at this
point now, but close and reopen cuz messing
with stuff before import has completed is a nono.

Also, clicking that stop sign in the activity window
turns it into a lock, which I cant get rid of. And
"scanning" activity does not stop.

Also, every time I open the catalogue, even from
"recent items", I have to navigate to the catalogue.
Why cant it remember where the catalogue is?
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Re: EM2 so many problems, now jump to Media Pro?

Postby Dave Heap » Wed May 25, 2011 12:55 am

mister z wrote:OK I have rendered my first folder into EM2, like you said,
like I did the first time weeks ago as a newbie. It went
fine with only one thumb blank. Who knows why. Anyway,
there is always activity in the activity window, even when I just
open the catalogue to look, something like scanning items.


Odd.

I had a fuzzy thumb, and I tried "rebuild items". I guess
the image was fuzzy, cuz the others were fine.


"Rebuild Items" rebuilds the selected item(s) only.

OK I imported my second folder. It actually
goes pretty fast. Everything appears done,
yet there in the activity window, it is
"scanning record #xx" and that's where it
stays. There are 6 to go, and the window
says 2 items in list, one selected. And that's
where it stays. This is what happens all the
time; it stalls is near the end with a few to do.
Yet those few ARE rendered. I see the stalling
file was 400 MB file. Other times? I dont know.
I'm afraid to do anything with the files at this
point now, but close and reopen cuz messing
with stuff before import has completed is a nono.


400MB is big, but I've successfully imported ~6,000 1032MB 16 bit TIFFs on a PPC 867MHz machine without problems. Possibly a corrupted image file. Is it a RAW file? Have you tried changing the RAW rendering engine "Preferences" "Media Rendering" "Raw"?

Also, clicking that stop sign in the activity window
turns it into a lock, which I cant get rid of. And
"scanning" activity does not stop.


Ignores the stop until current image is rendered :(

Also, every time I open the catalogue, even from
"recent items", I have to navigate to the catalogue.
Why cant it remember where the catalogue is?


Haven't seen that one before.
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Re: EM2 so many problems, now jump to Media Pro?

Postby mister z » Thu May 26, 2011 5:30 am

Sorry Dave, I think this will put the kibosh on your heroic effort to be helpful:

"Rebuild Items" rebuilds the selected item(s) only."
not for me.

The party is over. My 4th folder is a continuing disaster like I have reported way at the beginning.
Something must be wrong (Microsoft engineering?). I have no software problems at all with anything else.
The fourth folder has hundreds of thumbs unfinished. When I look at media view,
which does show the image, the activity window shows "scanning" of everything in the catalogue, 8000 now. Yet the progress bar is static at the complete end. When I go to the thumbnail view,
the scanning activity stops, list view too, but returns in Media view. I'm waiting to see what happens at the end of all this activity. Will my thumbs be in place? uh oh. How will I know? Now it scans
beyond the amount of items in the catalogue. What could it be scanning non-stop beyond
the 8000? Meanwhile the cursor flickers between arrow and clock. Now it's up to 10000.
Skip this lets see what else:
1100 of the 2400 items in the folder have no thumbnail. Some psd's failed. Some NEF's failed.
All jpg's worked, all dng's worked, but they were in the the first half where everything worked.
Why does my copyright become a listed keyword? I dont want that. Width & height are missing from
list view. Rebuild selected does nothing whatsoever. Light table works on the problem images, but they are not rotated correctly. Slide show works, but no thumbs there, rotated wrong. I close the program and reopened it. Now it is scanning 1100 items slowly. When I view an item that is just done being scanned, nothing changes. Meanwhile all 16 cpu threads are packed with activity. What on earth are those cpu's computing? Nothing changes !

Shouldn't there be something like "synchronize" to solve these problems? Doesn't EM2 look at the source file when we rebuild? What else can I do here? Hmm, lets try control-click the folder update now. That sounds fundamental. Why is it hidden in contextual menu? OK the 16 processors are each humming along serving the "Expression media 2 importer" at varying cpu % 50-300. Hmm, this looks suspiciously like what i have reported above, namely EM2 may be doing this non stop every time I open that catalogue. Hence I expect this too amounts to nothing... OK, just like all the other complaints, it scans till the last 5 or 10, stops undone, and nothing whatsoever has changed. Can I bill Phase One for wearing out my processors?

So you guys thought I was an idiot on this (me too), but no, this software is not ready for prime time.
The real puzzle, why isn't phase one getting in on this? Dont they want the software to be perfect?
I'll enter this thread for problem report.
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