P40+ durability

Questions, comments and suggestions regarding Phase One P+ series and P series digital camera backs.

P40+ durability

Postby NN636091100100858913UL » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:45 pm

Hey there,

I'm a Mamiya 645 DFIII user, with a ZD Back, and I have the opportunity to acquire a p40+ back.

It is said that the shutter count is a bit higher than 125 000. A camera body has a shutter count lifespan given by constructors, and mostly based on the solidity of the moving parts. But what about digital backs ? What could be the risks ? How a captor might age ?

Thank you for any answer you might give !
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Re: P40+ durability

Postby NN634458206002899411UL » Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:50 pm

Hi,

let me try an answer to your questions.

First of all I'd like to know which camera-body you are currently using since I do not know a "Mamiya 645 DF III"??
I guess, we are discussing a Mamiya 645 AFD III, which would somehow match with your mamiya ZD-back?!

If I suspect right and an AFD III ist your cam, then the P40+ Back might run you into trouble!
Both (the P40+ and the P65+) can be used with the AFD III but would require Firmware 1.5 in camera!
So check your CAM-Firmware first! A firmware update can only be done by a service partner. Later Mamiyas (Phase Ones) can be updated at home but the AFDIII needs a service partner.

Which back goes with which CAM can be picked up here!

https://www.phaseone.com/de-DE/Search/A ... cleid=1451

Secondly: Digtal backs are said to be very durable. As you correctly indicate ... there are no moving parts that could wear out mechanically. (some LEAF backs have active cooling fans, that can wear out)
I would not consider the above mentioned count as a problem if the back is in good condition.
You might like to read this nice contribution on buying a second hand DB ....

https://www.ludd.ltu.se/~torger/photogr ... guide.html

Finally: I have a ZD-Back myself and I like it very much. I would not replace it by a P40+ simply because of P40+'s smaller sensor.
P40+ has a 44x33mm sensor (crop 1.3) wheras your ZD-Back employs a 48x36mm sensor (crop 1.1).
Changing to the P40+ you would also need another focussing-screen in cam with narrower crop lines showing the right taking area which would be notably smaller than with your ZD-Back.
Again ... I would'nt do it! With the P40+ back there will be no real wide angle shooting possible. ZDs 22MPs are fine.
If you want to top it, go for a P45 or P45+ back (49x37mm sensor) ... even a bit larger than ZD.

So I have a P45+ in addition to my ZD but do not sell the ZD! Its vivid colour rendition due to its DALSA Sensor makes me love it.

Yours
Klaus

P.S. The P45+ matches with the AFD III whatever Firmware! If I guessed right and you have an AFD III ??!

https://captureintegration.com/phaseonep/#p40
Last edited by NN634458206002899411UL on Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: P40+ durability

Postby NN636091100100858913UL » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:18 pm

Hi Klaus,

Thank you for your fast and complete answers !

Of course I mixed up the names, and I own a Mamiya AFD III. Sorry about that.

I didn't know at all the firmware issue. So thanks a lot for warning me about this !
I'll check that.

I think I would keep my ZD back anyway also, but I was looking some P30+ and P40+ backs for their long exposure abilities. I just checked that the P30+ has the same sensor size as the P45+, so the issue about lenses and focusing screen remains.

So, for this, even a P25+ might do the trick, it seems.

The thing is that I didn't find any P45+ at a reasonable price, mostrly compared to the P30+ and P40+ i found.
But I'll keep searching !
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Re: P40+ durability

Postby NN634458206002899411UL » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:03 pm

Hi again (Name or Nick would be nice!),

I just checked that the P30+ has the same sensor size as the P45+, so the issue about lenses and focusing screen remains.


Sorry but no! :D

P21+, P30+ and P40+ employ the same (SMALLER) sensor size (44x33mm), which I personally do not consider medium format ... but there are other opinions out there of course.

P25+ and P45+ have the larger sensors (49x37mm KODAKs), different pixel counts of course.

Again: You can pick up all P+ SPECS here:

https://captureintegration.com/phaseonep/

Here is a nice comparison of the P+ Sesnor sizes (as there are four different sizes).

http://www.captureintegration.com/wp-co ... n-copy.jpg

And here you have a well done illustration of the different CROP factors.

https://captureintegration.com/phase-one-tests/

The P45+ is a very nice back ... extremely sharp-rendering offering very high resolution. As far as long time exposures are concerned it is unbeatable. You can do long time exposures up to an hour! Because of its strengthes it has its price.

Alternative:

I then would recommend a P45 (without the "+") DB which was the P45+'s predecessor. The Kodak 39MP sensor is the same and it can do up to 20min. long time exposures (which is outstanding as well.) Both backs do not differ all that much ... except that the "+" has an improved Display and is a bit faster shooting (slow enough of course!)

https://downloads.phaseone.com/14664db6 ... asheet.pdf

You might go for a P45 as they are more affordable offering no worse image quality.

I hope, I managed to "illuminate :lol: " you a bit?! Things are not really easy to go through. It took me considerable time too, digging me through that gear.

Yours

Klaus
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Re: P40+ durability

Postby NN636091100100858913UL » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:56 am

Hi Klaus,

NN634458206002899411UL wrote:(Name or Nick would be nice!)


Sorry ! Stefan here :wink:

NN634458206002899411UL wrote:
I just checked that the P30+ has the same sensor size as the P45+, so the issue about lenses and focusing screen remains.


Sorry but no! :D



You are totally right ! I mistyped, and I meant P30+ and P40+.

Thank you for all the informations you give.

Yes, in a way, it would be a pity to get a more "modern" DB but with a smaller sensor. I just (mistakingly) assumed that newer backs had, at the minimum, the same size as mine.

20 minutes might be enough for my use, so the I'll check some P45.

I didn't pay attention too much before, because I thought I might never be able to buy such expensive backs, but prices went so much down with second hand ones that I realized they became affordable.

And I work also with DSLR, on location mainly. But I wanted to use the Mamiya for studio product shootings, and tether it to a laptop. Hence my search for newer back.

By the way, how can I check the firmware of my Mamiya ? I didn't find info about this. Only in a partner center ?

Thanks again for your "illuminations" :D they are very useful !

Best regards,

Stefan
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Re: P40+ durability

Postby NN634458206002899411UL » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:47 pm

Hi Stefan,

when looking up information on your "Mamiya 645 AFD III", just take into account that it is identical to "Phase One 645 AF".
Doing so, I found out this (somewhat hidden info).

https://www.phaseone.com/en/Search/Arti ... nguageid=1

Following this thread you will have displayed your firmware version on the camera's shoulder display.
If it is 1.0 or younger then things are o.k.! As said .... all P and P+ backs will go (except P40+ and P65+) which require
latest available firmware 1.5.

Nice to know your name! :D Spelling indicates that you are German. :D

You can easily find me HERE as well:

https://www.bilderforum.de/

I am "Klaus-R" and a MODerator there.

https://www.bilderforum.de/members/

See you

Klaus

P.S. You might also like to know, that the ZD-back can be worked tethered! The only thing you'd need is an older WIN-XP driven computer and old "Mamiya DIGITAL PHOTO" RAW-converting software, which I can help you with, if wished!

MAMIYA DIGITAL PHOTO Software can still be used on WIN-7 or WIN-10 systems (using a simple trick!) for RAW-conversion but it cannot control the ZD-back in tethered mode, since there are no later drivers available than WIN-XP.
However .... an old XP-Notebook might be a lot cheaper than a new back .... if tethered shooting is the issue!
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Re: P40+ durability

Postby NN636091100100858913UL » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:13 pm

Hi Klaus,

Thank you again for the great informations !

I went through the custom functions once, but never had the idea to go back there. And in the manual, they stop at 35 :o
So, it appears my camera is at version 1.4

About the tethering, again something I didn't know. The previous owner of my camera and back told me that it wasn't possible. I'll check if I can grab an old XP laptop, and maybe I'll ask you if I need help for the Mamiya digital photo software. Thanks for offering your help !

I'm afraid I have to diappoint you about my nationality... I'm french, and I live in Budapest. My name is a long story ;-)

Ich kann ein bisschen Deutsch sprechen. Aber es ist nicht genug fűr Photo Technik !

Bis Bald !

Stefan
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