before/after adjustment preview

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before/after adjustment preview

Postby OffiFoto » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:34 am

Hello everybody,
is there a way to temporarily reset all the adjustment we did on a picture, the same way you can do by alt+clicking on a single tool reset button?
I use CO 6.4.3

Regards,
Paolo
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Re: before/after adjustment preview

Postby SFA » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:19 am

One way to see the original file is to create a New Variant.

You can then compare the original and modified versions together on screen and delete the unchanged original variant when you no longer need it.

Using a similar idea ... if you want to take snapshots of changes at different points in an edit just create a Clone Variant at each point and then continue to work with one of the version that represent that point until you get to the next snapshot point. Make another clone then and carry on, repeating until you have finished. Delete any variants you do not need to keep when you satisfied with the results.

Does this help?


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Re: before/after adjustment preview

Postby OffiFoto » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:36 am

Hi Grant,
thanks for the reply, very helpful.
I'm not used to work with variants... does they take space on the HD as a new picture or they are just an adjustments record?

I have to study about it...

Regards,
Paolo
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Re: before/after adjustment preview

Postby Paul_Steunebrink » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:02 am

Paolo16 wrote:Hi Grant,
thanks for the reply, very helpful.
I'm not used to work with variants... does they take space on the HD as a new picture or they are just an adjustments record?

You can regard variants as an additional adjustments record. Variants are a great feature, much under valued by Capture One users, IMO. Highly recommended to spend some time on it. Enjoy!
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Re: before/after adjustment preview

Postby SFA » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:46 pm

Paolo16 wrote:Hi Grant,
thanks for the reply, very helpful.
I'm not used to work with variants... does they take space on the HD as a new picture or they are just an adjustments record?

I have to study about it...

Regards,
Paolo



Hi Paolo,

Minimal space, as Paul has already mentioned, and easily disposable of course when no longer required. ( I presume the amount of space is mainy dictated by your preferred preview dimensions.)

Paul has covered my thoughts already but there are some interesting ways to use variants for specific needs. For instance a quick way to see how a B&W version might look - then keep it if you like it. Also if you tend to like different settings for different types and size of output, or different crops and sharpening settings for different media perhaps, variants might work as a way of doing that. I sort of depends on your workflow and needs and whether you often revisit an image and rework it from the basics again! (I find I often do ...)

Obviously this approach tends to be more suitable to working within C1 rather than combining with, say, Photoshop.

HTH.


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Re: before/after adjustment preview

Postby Paul_Steunebrink » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:14 pm

Regarding the amount of space a variant takes:

A new/clone variant is an extra full set of adjustments, stored in the settings files (*.cos). It does not affect the preview (*.cop). Settings files are very small, only a few KB and grow another few KB for each variants (and shrink with each variants deleted).

Due to assigning file space in blocks or clusters on your disk that are much larger than a settings file, the penalty to disk space is ZERO.
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Re: before/after adjustment preview

Postby SFA » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:59 pm

Paul_Steunebrink wrote:Regarding the amount of space a variant takes:

A new/clone variant is an extra full set of adjustments, stored in the settings files (*.cos). It does not affect the preview (*.cop).



Paul,

That's interesting. I had assumed that a separate preview was retained. So I'm now wondering, for a file with a series of variants, what is held as a preview? Just out of interest.

The variants concept is something I find logical. Prior to working with C1 I mainly used another application which was and still is very similar in many ways conceptually. In fact it still is and each application has specific merits that help to suggest which one to use and when.

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Re: before/after adjustment preview

Postby Paul_Steunebrink » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:16 pm

Grant,

The preview file is static; it is a low-resolution extract of your image file. What you see in the Viewer is the preview file plus the adjustments of the selected variant. With each variant having different adjustments, the Viewer presents a different image. But the preview file is only generated once and not altered by the variant.
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Re: before/after adjustment preview

Postby OffiFoto » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:01 am

Grant, Paul,
thank you very much for you help.
Next week I'll do some tests to practise with variants.

Greetings,
Paolo Nesi
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Re: before/after adjustment preview

Postby SFA » Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:03 am

Paul_Steunebrink wrote:Grant,

The preview file is static; it is a low-resolution extract of your image file. What you see in the Viewer is the preview file plus the adjustments of the selected variant. With each variant having different adjustments, the Viewer presents a different image. But the preview file is only generated once and not altered by the variant.


Paul,

Many thanks for the explanation. Slightly different to what I had thought goes on but not by much.

Presumably running a monitor set up that allows opening of the preview without additional scaling could have performance benefits compared to a set up that would induce up or down scaling? Would that be correct and if so also true for both thumbnails and main viewer displays? If so how do cropped images fit into that scenario?

Not important questions really for one off image processing but of coure when atttempting to process several thousand images odd seconds here and there soon build up to a lot of time and any possible efficiencies that can be identified are welcome. (This is true of all applications of course!)


Paolo,

Enjoy variants! Very powerful and useful as Paul has said.

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Re: before/after adjustment preview

Postby Paul_Steunebrink » Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:18 am

SFA wrote:...
Presumably running a monitor set up that allows opening of the preview without additional scaling could have performance benefits compared to a set up that would induce up or down scaling? Would that be correct and if so also true for both thumbnails and main viewer displays? If so how do cropped images fit into that scenario?

Not important questions really for one off image processing but of coure when atttempting to process several thousand images odd seconds here and there soon build up to a lot of time and any possible efficiencies that can be identified are welcome. (This is true of all applications of course!)

Grant,

Not sure I am following you in questions/remarks above. Will try to answer however.

Regarding the Viewer on the monitor and zooming in or display a crop: this is all handled by the preview file which can have different resolutions (or size), as set in the Preferences, Image tab. As soon as you - in the Viewer - go beyond the available pixels in the preview file, like when viewing 100% or more, a rendering from the source file starts and slows your workflow down.

Regarding processing: the preview file is not involved in processing, only the original image file and the adjustments in the settings file. Unless you process to JPEG QuickProof.
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Re: before/after adjustment preview

Postby SFA » Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:39 pm

Paul_Steunebrink wrote:
SFA wrote:...
Presumably running a monitor set up that allows opening of the preview without additional scaling could have performance benefits compared to a set up that would induce up or down scaling? Would that be correct and if so also true for both thumbnails and main viewer displays? If so how do cropped images fit into that scenario?

Not important questions really for one off image processing but of coure when atttempting to process several thousand images odd seconds here and there soon build up to a lot of time and any possible efficiencies that can be identified are welcome. (This is true of all applications of course!)

Grant,

Not sure I am following you in questions/remarks above. Will try to answer however.

Regarding the Viewer on the monitor and zooming in or display a crop: this is all handled by the preview file which can have different resolutions (or size), as set in the Preferences, Image tab. As soon as you - in the Viewer - go beyond the available pixels in the preview file, like when viewing 100% or more, a rendering from the source file starts and slows your workflow down.

Regarding processing: the preview file is not involved in processing, only the original image file and the adjustments in the settings file. Unless you process to JPEG QuickProof.



Thanks Paul,

That's pretty much as I thought but I appear to always have some sort of processing going on for any changes (obviously) but also any zooms, in or out. I'll pay more attention to what is going on in order to understand better what is happening and try to assess where, in my usual approach, I might gain some advantage by making changes to the workflow. Also check the size of the preview though as far as I know it is V6 (still, in my case sadly) default.

I recall that the trade off for display speed vs file size is mentioned in the V7 documentation (or was it a post in the forum?) with reference to the larger preview size set as the V7 default.

What I was thinking is along the lines of matching, as far as one can, the preview file size to the native display screen size (for example) so that if the workflow regularly made use of the available screen size (rather than 100% which misght very well be larger than the available native screen size) anything up to that size should be relatively quick to display and re-display. Anything larger may take a little additional processing. Is that about right?

Presumably smaller sizes also require some recalculation to bin some data but would be less demanding, as binning activities, than going back to drag in more data for expanding to a size greater than the preview.

Am I getting close or have I got the concept entirely wrong. (Or maybe just describing it badly?)

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Re: before/after adjustment preview

Postby Paul_Steunebrink » Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:18 pm

Grant,

Getting pretty close, conceptually, I think. ;-)
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Re: before/after adjustment preview

Postby SergNikitoni » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:41 am

Sometimes I use:
ctrl-R -> ctrl-Z
(reset - undo) sequence to see before/after adjustment. I would prefer one button as '\' in LR.
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Re: before/after adjustment preview

Postby SFA » Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:19 pm

SergNikitoni wrote:Sometimes I use:
ctrl-R -> ctrl-Z
(reset - undo) sequence to see before/after adjustment. I would prefer one button as '\' in LR.



The problem I have with reset and undo is that it has to perform a calculation each time and there is the possibility of losing the adjustments should one mis-key or if something else occurs to cause a glitch.

A single key that toggles between the unedited original and the edited version would be preferable in my opinion, although I still think the concept of side by side comparison may often be the better options.

There are 2 issues there relating to performance. 2 possibly complex an demanding calculations, one to go each way.

If we are not editing at the default preview size the unedited orignal will still need to be scaled. However the scaling and the application of edit changes presumably relate to each other in many cases. So if the presentation is firstly scaled and than had edits applied (which would seem logical?) it would surely mean that somewhere in memory there has to be, at some point, a scaled version of the original file to which the edits are added. So that suggests we (should) already have an unmolested basic RAW conversion in memory available to toggle to and see the comparison. Sort of like having an switch to turn off "all layers" at once.

Perhaps this is not the case currently but to hold the original file anyway would not seem to be that much of a memory overhead compared to the amount of memory recommended these days and available relatively inexpensively - at least for fairly recent hardware.

Have I missed anything?


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