Weird white balancevalues with P 45 and C1 Pro

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Weird white balancevalues with P 45 and C1 Pro

Postby Jann Lipka » Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:17 pm

While shooting thethered ( Mac )
with my P45 and white balancing captures on a white or neutral grey surface
I get strange values that are way lower that I would expect .
( like shooting with flash I expect something like 4800 K , what I get by white balancing ( that give me neutral tone on the screen and later in Photoshop ) with eyedropper is 2900 K )

The image looks Ok on the screen tof the computer in C1 Pro
( too blue on the LCd screen of the P45 )
Looks for me as some kind of camera profile issue
Anyone seeing that ?
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Postby Ulf » Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:46 pm

This is one of thouse that is not easy to answer unless I have access to the RAW files.
But from experiance I would say that in almost every case we have where a customer is pointing ot the colours temp. there is a mixed light situation where you can not be sure which value apply.
If it is warm then it might be dayligh coming in, if its cold then it might be flourecent light in the studio which is affecting the acctual colour temprature.
This is why we have this wonderful thing called White balance. :D
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Postby Jann Lipka » Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:37 am

Ulf , Thanks for your reply .
I am very well aware of the \" flimsy \" nature of white balance K values .
Unfortunately this is not the case in this situation .
Look at this screenshot .

http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?pictu ... z7q2aIWk50

This image is taken in my trusty Pro 7 light ( fresnel modifier ) exclusively .
I have taken thousands of pictures with it , and with P 25 I would get
values around K 4600 .

What I get with P45 is values around 2850 .

That is a huge 'difference and this value is plainly wrong for a flash light .

What I see is the same behaviour with
C1 on my & 5 tower and my Power Book .
This became unfortunately a bigger problem yeterday when I was shooting in
tungsten light - I simple was not able to get anything colder then bottom of the
scale ( 2000 K )

So I need to find out what is wrong here

I'm sending you this particular RAW file ...
It would be nice to find out igf this is a hardware or software issue .

PS: BTW - there is no difference in Kelvin values while shooting to the CF card .
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Ditto

Postby Jrgen1 » Fri Jan 20, 2006 1:26 am

I am experiencing the same thing. When I used my H20 I was around 4400K +-3 and with the P20 4350K +27 towards magenta. And now with the P30 it is around 3000K and -27 towards green. I am using a Profoto D4 which is very stable...

Why ???

Image[/img]

(Jann !

Visst sommarjobbade du på Länstidningen i Östersund för drygt 20 år sedan ?)
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Postby Jann Lipka » Fri Jan 20, 2006 3:40 am

IN a way I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one with \" insane\" white balance.

This is an important issue for me as very often
I want slightly colder look then lighting I was shooting with gives.


As C1 is limited to 2000 -12000 K in color tem slider ,
when I'm on the lower end of the scale ( shooting in mixed light ) ,
i have no reliable tool to make the image colder with .





Now: Sorry for the swedish language OT \" detour\" .

Jörgen , var det 20 år sedan ?

Det känns som igår ,
det var ett jättekul knäck med massa spännande uppdrag .
Gamla goda TriX tiden.


Är ibland I östersund faktiskt fortfarande eftersom
Åsa min tjej kommer därifrån .
Hälsningar .
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Postby Jann Lipka » Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:08 pm

Update on this :
I got an email from another Photog with P45 with the same issue ....
He thought all of us needed a firmware update ...
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Postby NN8878311 » Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:28 pm

(Sorry for the big post ...)

Well, i get about the same with my P30 and my ProPack 1200.

I tried both my P30 on H1 w. 80mm and my D2X w. 17-55mm. Same light, Profoto ProPack 1200 + ProHead with softlight reflector (white):
First shot with my P30:
Image

Shot the same thing with my D2X:
Image

Strange anyway, kind of bad if you're working in warmer light and want to cool it down ...

Another strange thing (or am i stupid ...) is how the two differ in coping with increasing the kelvin in C1. If i raise the kelvin +1000K from the \"neutral\" the difference is very big between P30 files and D2X files. I understand that it is two completely defferent formats etc. etc. but look at the difference ...

P30 +1000K
Image

D2X +1000K
Image

ps. The D2X files are opened in C1 LE and the P30 in C1 DB, just haven't upgraded to Pro just yet, soon ...

//Kristofer
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Postby NN8878311 » Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:57 pm

Tried the same setup, same reflector, but changed the ProHead to a ProTungsten head. (no images posted this time :D)

I by default (Tungsten setting in P30) get 2050 kelvin, looks a little bit cold. If i whitebalance in C1 i get 2450 kelvin and it looks neutral, like the flash did on 3700 kelvin. Strange that it only differs 1350 kelving between flash and tungsten ...

//Kristofer
Last edited by NN8878311 on Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Jrgen1 » Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:47 pm

:D
Hey guys !

Maybe it has to do with the clean air we have in Sweden ? :D

I am really concerned about this, Kristofer, please ask Martin when U meet him at \"Norrlandsdagarna\" if he could perform a test like Yours and see what results he get.

I hate to be a paying ß tester...
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Postby Ulf » Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:34 pm

Jann

Saw now that you have been PM'ing information to me.
We do not accept PM's when this is yet another channel people is trying to get support but that way it can not be traced with history, if a staff member is not available then no one else can take over, this is why we have the support system at http://support.phaseone.com where you can create support cases.
This in here is a user to user forum.

OK now when that is clarified.

I have received an e-mail with your contact information from our Swedish dealer. I will give information to you on how to create a support case and hopefully we will have this resolved ASAP.

If you do expect the exact same white balance on every camera this will not happen when there is to many variables that affects.
Sensor type
Sensor calibration.
Lens
Color profiles.
Flash system
Mixed light source (Daylight / Flourecent in a flash shot)

Är ni allihopa Norrlänningar? Det kunde förklara den rena luften
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Postby Ulf » Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:11 pm

....one more thing,

For P30 and P45 try using the updated profile.
ftp://ftp.phaseone.com/Support/Download/uli/
DMG file for Mac and Zip file for Windows.
Read the release note for more information.
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Postby Jrgen1 » Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:26 pm

Someone have disbled the PM function and I have got a new PM which I have not read, I do not know when it is from either.
Can someone fix this ?
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Postby Jann Lipka » Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:20 pm

The new F1 camera profiles ( from today ) didn't solve the problem at all .
On my P 45 back anyway
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Postby Ulf » Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:29 pm

Jann

Sent you information on e-mail, please respond to that so we can figure out what is going on. :D
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Postby Jann Lipka » Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:51 pm

I'm not sure if I did miss anything , I have created a new support case and keep my fingers crossed :-)
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