custom camera profile

Questions and comments regarding Capture One PRO/DB/LE for Mac and Windows

custom camera profile

Postby Jrgen111 » Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:12 pm

Hi all
Has anyone tried to make a custom camera profile with a 3rd party software? I resently bought the XRite Pulse system that claims to be able to create monitor, input (camera and scanner), and output (printer) profiles. Monitor and output profiles can I create with exellent results but when it comes to input profile (for a H10) I'm having trouble. As far as I know I have to make a capture of a GM color checker card - process the raw file with no color management but is this really possible? I have tried to embed the \"Phase One No Color Correction\" profile - opened in PS and discared the embedded profile and saved the tif file without color manegement. Then I loaded the file in the Pulse software and let it create a profile. But if I load this profile in the proper color sync folder and select it in the C1 the preview is way off. Also if I process a similar raw file and let PS do the conversion the result is also very poor.
This lead me to think that the Pulse software is unable to work with C1 or visaversa.
Does anyone have a clue of what to do?
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I have GMB Profilemaker Pro 5

Postby Jrgen1 » Tue Jan 03, 2006 3:35 pm

I have been very successful in making custom profiles for my digital backs, H20>P20 and i will try to profile the P30 next week.

I have made exactly like U. But I have used \"linear response\" instead of \"film standard\" before I developed the file.

Try that !
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PhaseOne P20 on a Hasselblad H2
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Postby Eric311 » Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:59 pm

Jorgen59

Besides doing a proper grey balance, you can indeed process with no color correction.

You must do the grey balance of course, so shoot your color chart in your typical lighting conditions. I'd do one in the studio, and one outdoors at on an average day in your region. (You'd then make 2 profiles)

Next, just develop with \"Embed Camera Profile\", with no curves or levels. Open in photoshop and choose Assign Profile/Don't Color Manage This Document.

Then run the file through your profiling software, and place the new profile(s) in your colorsync profiles folder. Shoot some new pictures and assess the profiles.

If they're not looking good, you need to tweak them in your profiling software...
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use embeded camera profile

Postby Peter12 » Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:05 am

Gleeblitz,

How and where can I choose \"Embed Camera Profile\" in Capture One. I only get the choices of generic, generic V2, and the two ETC profiles I bought.

I am trying to profile a Nikon camera using the Monaco/Xrite Pulse.

Thanks,

Peter
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Postby Eric311 » Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:04 am

Peter
This is when you process the file, just under \"Format\" in the Basic output settings... Hope that helps -
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profiling with Capture One

Postby Peter12 » Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:06 pm

When profiling scanners and printers I have always scanned or printed the target without color managing it. (untagged RGB, etc.)

With Capture One, under the white balance panel, I am choosing an ICC profile that will be used to process the file. Even though I might choose the \"use embeded camera profile\" option that will be used to send the image to Photoshop, the file is viewed and processed in Capture One using an ICC profile. Doesn't that invaidate the new profile I produce with Pulse? The profile is not built with raw data, and if chosen in in the pulldown menu on the white balance panel will not yield correct results, and if applied under \"Format\", the preview in Capture One does not show the corrected color.

Or does choosing \"linear\" on the exposure panel by pass the ICC profile?

I should say I am pleased with the color I get now from Capture One using the ETC profiles. However, I can see some room for improvement at time, and if building a profile for my individual camera might make a difference, I'd like to try.


Thanks,

Peter
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Postby Eric311 » Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:33 pm

As far as I can tell, C1 only makes use of the input profile when you choose to process to a new output destination. You do have to set a custom white balance, but choosing Embed Camera Profile won't affect the actual numbers in your tiff file. The benefit is you can just remove it in photoshop, and proceed untagged in your profiling software.

Linear mode normally refers to the unprocessed light readings of the back. I don't think that C1's \"Linear\" truly reflects this (if it did the file would be much much darker), so i don't use it for profiling. Can you Phase One guys confirm this?
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Postby Ulf » Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:49 pm

Discussion is going in the right direction.
It is correct that you can not turn of colour managment but there is a camera profile called \"Phase One No Colour Correction\".
Set output simply to Embed Camera Profile.
It is not our recommendation to use Linear Curve rather use film standard.
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Workflow also possible with Canon??

Postby Andy411 » Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:15 pm

Hi Ulf
I also would like to generate a custom camera profile with 3rd party software
for a Canon EOS 1ds.
When I choose 'phase one - no color correction' profile, it shows
'Phase One Light Phase' as the camera product. Is this a problem? Or
is this 'no color correction profile' usable for all supported cameras, eg
Nikon, Canon..........
Regards
Andy
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Postby Ulf » Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:31 pm

Camera product is totally irrelevant when this profile is a generic one which does not do any correction to the RAW file.
Camera product is used to make sure that correct profile is always used in a mixed camera enviroment.
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Postby NN8727712 » Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:44 pm

Hi,

Ive read these posts with great interest and have gone through the same learning curve!

If I am creating a camera profile with 3rd party software should the capture tool & white balance tool icc profiles both be set with 'Phase One - No color correction'

Also can anyone explain the difference between the capture tool icc profile & the white balance tool icc profile, when shooting tethered should these be the same?
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Postby pmirror » Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:59 pm

Great and interesting discussion.
I'd like to add few question too :)

1. Some of you were trying to make new custom profile for DSLR input, do we really need to make custom profile for PhaseOne too? I'm using H25.

2. If any of you succeed with custom profile for DSLR, please share if it's gain the color quality of the image. So far with no custom profile (DSLR) I've already got good result. I'm using Nikon D2X.

Thanks.
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Re:

Postby deejjjaaaa » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:07 pm

Ulf wrote:It is not our recommendation to use Linear Curve rather use film standard.


it is an old topic, sorry - but I have a small question - why it is not P1's recommendation to use "Linear Curve" when creating an image to be used w/ a profile making software and is the situation still the same w/ C1 v4.x ? = not to use "linear response" and use "film standard" ? thank you.
RAW:: .PEF (Pentax) + .RW2 (Panasonic) + .X3F (Sigma)...
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Re: custom camera profile

Postby Ulf » Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:23 pm

The question should be flipped around, if you have a specific reason for Linear curve then by all means use it.

This has nothing to do with what version of the software you use but more what kind of result you expect the software to produce and the linear curve is there for customer that needs it.
Kind Regards
Ulf Liljegren
Phase One
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Re: custom camera profile

Postby deejjjaaaa » Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:25 pm

Ulf wrote:The question should be flipped around,


ouch, it hurts...

Ulf wrote: if you have a specific reason for Linear curve then by all means use it.

This has nothing to do with what version of the software you use but more what kind of result you expect the software to produce and the linear curve is there for customer that needs it.


ok, let me ask another question - when you (PhaseOne I mean) shoot a target (whatever it will be - custom made in house or available from a 3rd party), do you (PhaseOne I mean) yourself use your own product (C1 that is) to process the raw file into TIFF (or whatever else) for a further profiling and if so - do you use one of your own standard curves available also when you select [ICC Profile]->[Other]->[Phase One-no color correction] or your profiling (to create CaptureOne profiles for dSLR cameras) is done w/o CaptureOne itself being used in the process ? and if you are not using C1 in the process - which curve will be the closest to the one that might be used by P1 ? did I ask something stupid ?
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