Capture One 12 released!

Discussions, questions, comments and suggestions regarding Capture One PRO, Capture One PRO For Sony / Fujifilm, Capture One DB and Capture One Express For Sony / For Fujifilm 12.x for Windows

Re: Capture One 12 released!

Postby IanS » Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:55 pm

NNN636624623419143170 wrote:NO NO NO!
I am using a display-resolution of 1920x1080 - and the new Fonts are way to big. The new "improved" user interface looks terrible to me (maybe because of the larger fonts).
No longer like the UI of some high-end software, it simply looks cheap. :cry:

No i am no longer able to show all the options from my tools directly, i have to click around much more to open the different tools in the actual tool tab.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make the font size switchable/changeable or revert to the smaller fonts of the 11 Version.

Currently i am not shure if i did upgrade to fast. Maybe i wasted a lot of money to get less usability than before. :cry: :(


These are user to user forums. Have you made a support case with PhaseOne?

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Re: Capture One 12 released!

Postby Schopi68 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:23 pm

IanS wrote:
These are user to user forums. Have you made a support case with PhaseOne?

Ian


Oh, i'm sorry. It did not look to me as if the thread opener is a user. :)

But i do not know what to write in a support case. I am sure, from the developers view the products works as designed. :( But you're right, i'll get in contact to the support.

(I've just reinstalled my old 11.3.1-Version because of the mentioned problems i have with version 12).
Last edited by Schopi68 on Sat Dec 22, 2018 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Capture One 12 released!

Postby Ian3 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:28 pm

NNN636624623419143170 wrote:But i do not know what to write in a support case. I am sure, from the developers view the products works as designed. :( But you're right, i'll get in contact to the support.

You can use the support case system to make feature requests too.

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Re: Capture One 12 released!

Postby SFA » Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:57 pm

NNN636624623419143170 wrote:
IanS wrote:
These are user to user forums. Have you made a support case with PhaseOne?

Ian


Oh, i'm sorry. It did not look to me as if the thread opener is a user. :)

But i do not know what to write in a support case. I am sure, from the developers view the products works as designed. :( But you're right, i'll get in contact to the support.

(I've just reinstalled my old 11.3.1-Version because of the mentioned problems i have with version 12).


For what it is worth I also use 1920x1080 screen, 15 inch, on a notebook and the font is a little larger than it was (as advised to expect) but not so large as you seem to be seeing. It makes very little difference on my screen but it sounds like it makes a LOT of difference on yours.

I have the screen set to 125% zoom using the Windows 7 display controls - needed for all applications displayed at normal size for laptop use for my purposes. It's fine. I would probably be happy with it at 100% if I could change my eyes!


Grant
Last edited by SFA on Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Capture One 12 released!

Postby NN635398439392572200UL » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:51 am

SFA wrote:
NN635398439392572200UL wrote:I'm a long time user. Upgraded to V11 2 months ago and I have to pay full upgrade $149 again for V12 NO DEAL! Customer service is the first to go when companies are failing. I can only deduce this is the case time to research alternatives.


So you waited 10 months after V11 was released before upgrading?

No problem. I skipped V10 completely.

But then as a long time user you would probably have worked out by now that the release pattern for new versions had settled into an annual period based around the end of November and beginning of December. And you would have known that Phase usually operate a 'grace' period of 30 days. So anyone buying or upgrading during November could probably expect to get the next release included.

Can I ask what prompted you to jump in for a late-in-the-cycle upgrade 2 months ago?

Do you really NEED V12? After all you did not exactly rush into V11. Why not skip it for now, as you did with V11. It's not a compulsory upgrade for a Windows user. You could probably skip V12 completely if you don't ever think it offers anything you need.

The final two sentences of your brief comment seem to be completely unconnected with anything you wrote previously and have no relevance at all. One wonders what really motivated you to make the post.


Gladly because they just added support for my new camera the Fuji XT-3 and you know how it goes no update no new camera support. So I upgraded. Did I contemplate that they may have a new version coming out and that they have a shite upgrade policy NO. Do I keep track of all the software I buy update policies no. Have I found any other companies policies this offensive no. Do I need V12, do I need Capture One at all no! So I will not be upgrading I may even be dropping it. There policy of showing no remorse and standing firm to bad policy is not supportive of retaining customers. I have found this type of customer service behavior from business that are losing profitability and making bad policies to generate revenue no matter what the long term cost to customer retention maybe.

Let me ask you a question do you think this is a good customer service policy?
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Re: Capture One 12 released!

Postby SFA » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:48 am

NN635398439392572200UL wrote:

Let me ask you a question do you think this is a good customer service policy?



It's a policy.

It's a clear policy and has been much the same for some years.

The timing of a camera purchase (or a new computer purchase and potential compatibility with whatever OS it is delivered with) that might make one feel forced to upgrade) is always going to be unfortunate for someone. The same with a feature release or maybe support of a particular lens.

I had something similar when I held off on a release a few years ago, finally decided to go for it after about 9 months for no really great reason of need and then found that that the version release period had reduced form about 18 months to 12 months - and I really wanted some of the stuff in the new release. In the end it had cost me no omore than regulat upgrading or, these days, the cheapest subscription cost.

Of course I could argue that I could get more software for the same annual outlay from another supplier. But then I would not like it as much and the extra software would likely be of no use to me. I would gain nothing and lose a lot.

In effect this has not cost you anything - your just have been unable to make a saving that you may have hoped you would be able to make, but only in retrospect since the new release frequency pattern was not something you were aware of.

Maybe the subscription model is popular with some companies because it entirely removes the timing of a purchase issue as people come to accept that they are renting their life and that entirely eliminates any issues about missing out on a better deal based purely on its timing.

No policy will satisfy everyone.

But it is a policy and as I said above it has been used and applied for several years. At least for your Fuji you had the option of a free version or a reduced cost version. Even a free update to V12 from V11 if buying the reduced price Fuji specific licence. That's not something I have available as a Canon user.

Phase have to do what they have to do commercially to make the business work. They have to judge what the effects will be for the policies and deals they offer. Like any company, if they get it wrong - whether that be making it unattractive or too attractive - they will have to address the consequences as they see fit.

We should not lose sight of the fact that what we are really discussing in the relatively low value difference between one year's upgrade price and the next but it will look worse to you because, as I did a few years ago, your purchase decision was made, or forced upon you as you might see things, by an external influence, in your case a camera purchase. Bad luck with the timing really. If you can live with V12 for a while on the basis that perhaps it offer you nothing extra you really need then do so. You have nothing to lose. Maybe survive to V13 and simply defer your lost saving for a year?


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Re: Capture One 12 released!

Postby Schopi68 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:52 am

SFA wrote:For what it is worth I also use 1920x1080 screen, 15 inch, on a notebook and the font is a little larger than it was (as advised to expect) but not so large as you seem to be seeing. It makes very little difference on my screen but it sounds like it makes a LOT of difference on yours.

I have the screen set to 125% zoom using the Windows 7 display controls - needed for all applications displayed at normal size for laptop use for my purposes. It's fine. I would probably be happy with it at 100% if I could change my eyes!


Well, i am using 100% zoom, so the difference to the fonts in other applications is presumably larger on my system. I can understand that the fonts are too small on a 15"-Display (i am using this resolution on a 17" Display). One more reason to make the font size changeable so that it fits on every customers need.

As already mentioned: in the past i could have most of the tools i need open in the tooltab, now i have to click around to open them during picture work (and opening one means another one is closed because of the increased space they are using).

I'm afraid we will not see any change to this behavior before Capture One 13... :?
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Re: Capture One 12 released!

Postby SFA » Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:09 pm

I really don't think the font size changes are very noticable in terms of handling the vertical resolution in the tools window.

Some logical re-arrangements of the grouping in each tab may have changed things but if you have a previously saved preferred workspace you could try that instead. Also consider re-defining some of your tool groups maybe?

The biggest change I can think of is the addition of some lines to the Layers tool to accommodate new functionality.

I'm also wondering if somehow your screen is not using the resolution you are expecting from it when it is displaying C1. Your original description of the problem does not reflect what I see on the screen even allowing for the difference in screen size, so there may be something else going on.


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Re: Capture One 12 released!

Postby GrahamB3 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:28 pm

I use 2 monitors with C1. The first is 24" at 1920x1200, the 2nd, 27" at 3840 x 2160. Using Win 10's variable monitor scaling, the 24" is set at 100%, the 27", at 150%.

C1 12 allows fewer open tools to be displayed (vertically) than my upgraded C1 10. If I change the default scaling of my monitor to accommodate the font enlarged C1 12, it will effect all my apps.

I'm no programmer. My various web browsers allow program specific scaling settings, why not C1? With users employing a variety of monitor sizes, and resolutions, no set font size is going be universally acceptable.

Graham
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Re: Capture One 12 released!

Postby Class A » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:05 pm

NNN635465616451391497 wrote:C1 12 allows fewer open tools to be displayed (vertically) than my upgraded C1 10.

I've noticed the same (comparing to C1 11).
A small difference in vertical space can have a huge impact on whether or not collapsing of tools becomes necessary. Expanding collapsed tools is a significant time waster so any additional use of vertical space should be very carefully considered.

The extra space required by the permanent adjustment and luma range buttons is equally problematic. This could have been better solved, as these functions are certainly not always used.

Rearranging one's tools to suit a new font size is not a good solution at all, in particular for users with full HD displays who didn't require a font increase. Tool arrangements should be based on workflow, not on having to work around negative UI changes.

NNN635465616451391497 wrote:With users employing a variety of monitor sizes, and resolutions, no set font size is going be universally acceptable.

Exactly. Assuming that every serious user employs a 4K display would be unwarranted. Given that C1 can scale the UI based on the Windows scaling setting, I don't understand at all why the user is not given the option to tweak the scaling for themselves. As you mentioned, using the Windows scaling is not always an option as it affects all programs.
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Re: Capture One 12 released!

Postby NN635398439392572200UL » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:02 am

SFA wrote:
NN635398439392572200UL wrote:

Let me ask you a question do you think this is a good customer service policy?



It's a policy.

It's a clear policy and has been much the same for some years.

The timing of a camera purchase (or a new computer purchase and potential compatibility with whatever OS it is delivered with) that might make one feel forced to upgrade) is always going to be unfortunate for someone. The same with a feature release or maybe support of a particular lens.

I had something similar when I held off on a release a few years ago, finally decided to go for it after about 9 months for no really great reason of need and then found that that the version release period had reduced form about 18 months to 12 months - and I really wanted some of the stuff in the new release. In the end it had cost me no omore than regulat upgrading or, these days, the cheapest subscription cost.

Of course I could argue that I could get more software for the same annual outlay from another supplier. But then I would not like it as much and the extra software would likely be of no use to me. I would gain nothing and lose a lot.

In effect this has not cost you anything - your just have been unable to make a saving that you may have hoped you would be able to make, but only in retrospect since the new release frequency pattern was not something you were aware of.

Maybe the subscription model is popular with some companies because it entirely removes the timing of a purchase issue as people come to accept that they are renting their life and that entirely eliminates any issues about missing out on a better deal based purely on its timing.

No policy will satisfy everyone.

But it is a policy and as I said above it has been used and applied for several years. At least for your Fuji you had the option of a free version or a reduced cost version. Even a free update to V12 from V11 if buying the reduced price Fuji specific licence. That's not something I have available as a Canon user.

Phase have to do what they have to do commercially to make the business work. They have to judge what the effects will be for the policies and deals they offer. Like any company, if they get it wrong - whether that be making it unattractive or too attractive - they will have to address the consequences as they see fit.

We should not lose sight of the fact that what we are really discussing in the relatively low value difference between one year's upgrade price and the next but it will look worse to you because, as I did a few years ago, your purchase decision was made, or forced upon you as you might see things, by an external influence, in your case a camera purchase. Bad luck with the timing really. If you can live with V12 for a while on the basis that perhaps it offer you nothing extra you really need then do so. You have nothing to lose. Maybe survive to V13 and simply defer your lost saving for a year?


Grant

That's a wall of text for a yes or no answer. To quote You "One wonders what really motivated you to make the post."
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Re: Capture One 12 released!

Postby NN635790973675498599UL » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:45 pm

Class A wrote:
NNN635465616451391497 wrote: Given that C1 can scale the UI based on the Windows scaling setting...


But as far as I can see, it doesn't do this. They just gave it a slightly bigger font, which is the same regardless of the Windows scaling factor. I changed that factor to 250%, restarted C1, and the font size didn't change.

I have a 4K monitor and the difference in what I see on v12 vs v11 is small. Without being able to run v11 and v12 side-by-side it's hard too evaluate.
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Re: Capture One 12 released!

Postby Keith Reeder » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:52 am

NN635398439392572200UL wrote:That's a wall of text for a yes or no answer. To quote You "One wonders what really motivated you to make the post."

To counter your apparent belief that you're somehow special and entitled to a deal not available to "normal" people, I imagine...
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Re: Capture One 12 released!

Postby Keith Reeder » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:00 pm

NN636100965072346098UL wrote:Noise redect? Still useless.

Compared to what, exactly?

There's not much on the Windows platform that outperforms Capture One's noise reduction algorithm. Certainly it's as good as what DxO has to offer outside of PRIME; and it's a lot better than LightRoom.

So - again - useless compared to what?

Only Photo Ninja clearly beats it - but then again, it beats everything in NR terms (including PRIME).
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Re: Capture One 12 released!

Postby MarcoMackenbachFotografie » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:39 pm

Ridiculous upgrade policy!
I bought my Capture One 11.3 on October 18 2018 (6 weeks ago!) and I am lot legible for a Free or Discounted upgrade? :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:
Sorry to see that, but I will -never- buy this product again, even though I truly love it.
Not the first time this happens with PhaseOne. I'm done with this sort of bull. :evil:
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