images and variants in collections and documents

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images and variants in collections and documents

Postby NN635395415190452258UL » Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:47 pm

Hi,

it seems that when requesting "images" or "variants" from either the "application" or the "current document" it's always returning the images or variants for the currently selected collection. It should return all images/variants for covered by currently opened catalogues when asking the "application" or the currently front most catalogue when requesting them from the applications "current document".

That seems to be a bug. Not sure if it has existed in Capture One 11 as I just upgrade to 12 and 11 got automatically deactivated.

thx
-Torsten
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Re: images and variants in collections and documents

Postby rapdigital » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:25 pm

you could add a line to choose the 'all images' collection.
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Re: images and variants in collections and documents

Postby Eric Nepean » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:29 pm

NN635395415190452258UL wrote:Hi,

it seems that when requesting "images" or "variants" from either the "application" or the "current document" it's always returning the images or variants for the currently selected collection. It should return all images/variants for covered by currently opened catalogues when asking the "application" or the currently front most catalogue when requesting them from the applications "current document".

That seems to be a bug. Not sure if it has existed in Capture One 11 as I just upgrade to 12 and 11 got automatically deactivated.

thx
-Torsten
Yes, this is the way it is supposed to work; I would not want it to work any other way.

The purpose of a collection is to define a group or groups of images. If a collection is selected, it means you intend to work with that group of images. If you ignore this, then you have no way of working with only a group of images.

If you want to work with all images, then select the collection "All Images".

In Applescript, here is how you set the collection to All Images:

Code: Select all
tell application "Capture One 12" to tell current document to set current collection to collection 1
##   or
tell application "Capture One 12" to tell current document to set current collection to collection "All Images"
Cheers, Eric
[late 2015 iMac, 4GHz i7, 24GB RAM, external SSDs. GX8, E-M1, GX7, GM5, GM1 ....]
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Re: images and variants in collections and documents

Postby NN635395415190452258UL » Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:48 am

Eric Nepean wrote:
NN635395415190452258UL wrote:Hi,

it seems that when requesting "images" or "variants" from either the "application" or the "current document" it's always returning the images or variants for the currently selected collection. It should return all images/variants for covered by currently opened catalogues when asking the "application" or the currently front most catalogue when requesting them from the applications "current document".

Yes, this is the way it is supposed to work;


I respectfully disagree b/c in an object oriented world, it is not logical, it's not what the user or developer would expect. There are objects representing the application, documents (Catalogues) and collections. Asking the "application" or the "document" object for it's images and getting the images in the currently selected collection is not making any sense.

Put another way:
In case we had a "CookingReceipts" object for "Sauce Bolognese", which contained "ingredients" objects, which in turn contained "spices" objects, and we ask the "CookingReceipts" object for it's ingredients just to get "salt", "pepper", "thyme" and "basil". The minced meat, onions tomatoes etc would be missing. It would not be all ingredients, just a subset.

Sure, in our case with C1 one could try checking all collections and other workarounds, but that doesn't make the initial bug more right.

The purpose of a collection is to define a group or groups of images. If a collection is selected, it means you intend to work with that group of images. If you ignore this, then you have no way of working with only a group of images.


I'm not asking a collection for it's images, I'm asking the (current) document (i.e., Catalogue) or the application for it's images. That's why returning anything other than all the images contained in either of those wrong.

If you want to work with all images, then select the collection "All Images".


That's not a suitable approach for at least two reasons:
  1. Using the existence of a collection ("Catalogue"), which might or might not be always there with future versions.k about future versions)
  2. The naming of that collection/catalogue, which might not only change with different versions of Capture one, right now it is based on the users locale setting, so the collections name can't be relied upon.

Best
-Torsten
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Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:38 am

Re: images and variants in collections and documents

Postby Eric Nepean » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:30 am

What you are proposing to change has been in place since I started using Capture One in 2014 (version 7) and likely earlier.

I'm not sure of the value of such change to to users, most users are primarily photographers, and don't change scripts very often. Users have been writing and using scripts based on the existing behaviour for at least 5 years, likely longer. Sharing of scripts is mostly done by that rare breed, photographers who also are good at writing software. Probably not more than a few dozen.
NN635395415190452258UL wrote:
Eric Nepean wrote:
NN635395415190452258UL wrote:Hi,

it seems that when requesting "images" or "variants" from either the "application" or the "current document" it's always returning the images or variants for the currently selected collection. It should return all images/variants for covered by currently opened catalogues when asking the "application" or the currently front most catalogue when requesting them from the applications "current document".

Yes, this is the way it is supposed to work;


I respectfully disagree b/c in an object oriented world, it is not logical, it's not what the user or developer would expect. There are objects representing the application, documents (Catalogues) and collections. Asking the "application" or the "document" object for it's images and getting the images in the currently selected collection is not making any sense

Put another way:
In case we had a "CookingReceipts" object for "Sauce Bolognese", which contained "ingredients" objects, which in turn contained "spices" objects, and we ask the "CookingReceipts" object for it's ingredients just to get "salt", "pepper", "thyme" and "basil". The minced meat, onions tomatoes etc would be missing. It would not be all ingredients, just a subset.
I dislike shifting an analysis from one problem space to another because problem spaces are never quite similar. Then you have a lively discussion about solving the other problem, and then you argue aout the definiton of that...
I think that the real oversight here is that the Application

Sure, in our case with C1 one could try checking all collections and other workarounds, but that doesn't make the initial bug more right.
The purpose of a collection is to define a group or groups of images. If a collection is selected, it means you intend to work with that group of images. If you ignore this, then you have no way of working with only a group of images.


I'm not asking a collection for it's images, I'm asking the (current) document (i.e., Catalogue) or the application for it's images. That's why returning anything other than all the images contained in either of those wrong.

If you want to work with all images, then select the collection "All Images".


That's not a suitable approach for at least two reasons:
  1. Using the existence of a collection ("Catalogue"), which might or might not be always there with future versions.k about future versions)

Catalog and Collection are two different things entirely. A Catalog is an object of class document that contains collections; Collection is a class, objects of of this class never contain catalogs
    2. The naming of that collection/catalogue, which might not only change with different versions of Capture one, right now it is based on the users locale setting, so the collections name can't be relied upon.
Best
-Torsten

"All Images" has always been "collection 1".
Cheers, Eric
[late 2015 iMac, 4GHz i7, 24GB RAM, external SSDs. GX8, E-M1, GX7, GM5, GM1 ....]
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