What has happened to tech support?

Discussions, questions, comments and suggestions regarding Capture One PRO, Capture One PRO For Sony / Fujifilm, Capture One for Phase One and Capture One Express For Sony / For Fujifilm 20.x for Windows

Re: What has happened to tech support?

Postby SFA » Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:05 pm

BeO wrote:Grant, I couldnt' agree more.

Btw., my online bank does no longer support ios 10 on my iphone 4s which is considered "ancient technology" by some, although it is just a couple of years old. So I am forced to buy a new phone, a TAN generator or change my bank.
And, as I know you have or have had a Dell mobile workstation: Many keys on my M4500 are out of order now, though only 7 years old Dell does not have a single spare keyboard in their storage anymore ...

MP3 players have replaced high fidelity audio systems from the 80s, and smart phones will replace, or have already for most people, hi fidelity cameras. Quantity and convenience over quality. But there is a niche market for high END audio systems, even high end streaming, and I believe camera industry goes the same route...


I still have my M4700.

Keyboard OK so far apart from some missing characters on some keys and a hole in the surface fo the left key of the track pad. However last week the left hinge for the lid became loose. I think the hinge may be OK but the mounting points may be broken. I will take it apart soon to have a look. I have allowed it to slip to the floor a few times. It has done well. The only failure has been the Power brick. I changed the battery too as it seemed to be getting a little weak and I had a replacement that I bought about 3 years ago and had been stored ever since. Probably not good for it.

I found a source for replacement (salvage) hinges that happens to be quite near to me so I think maybe I can get things I need. Maybe even a keyboard.

I think you are right about the camera industry. It would be interesting to compare current sales numbers with peak analog camera sales figures - perhaps world population levels adjusted. Per capita figures maybe?


Grant
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Re: What has happened to tech support?

Postby Okular » Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:02 pm

Although I have been a C1 user for a few years, I only knew from Phase One that it produces medium format cameras and DigiBacks and yes - probably originally only for its own cameras - a good RAW converter.
Then I did a little more research on Phase One. That was when the PreOder offer for C1 came and for that moment I was primarily concerned with looking ahead to see if it was worth it, i.e. to see which company is behind it, what potential the company has to develop the product C1, what power it has against competitors like Lightroom from a market leader in imaging products.

There were articles stating that Silverfleet Capital had sold its shares at 4 times the original purchase price to Axcel, the new majority owner. That is remarkable at first, but is even more interesting in that context, quote Silverfleet: "... Silverfleet has supported Phase One to undergo a significant transformation, from a hardware to software-centric business focus, which has helped drive a revenue CAGR of +38% in its Software Imaging Systems business unit between 2014 and 2018...".
Most of Phase One sales revenue thus come from the software business, so it is generated by C1. That should clearly define the priorities for Phase One management and so we come back to the topic of this thread, primarily to strengthen the product C1 with whatever measures. That would mean implementing improvements that users have been asking for for a long time and this particularly includes user support.

And to add, I would think everything else that promote the market position and sales of C1. An example, thematically a bit off topic here and certainly not relevant for all users but a pointer: Only Tangent is currently supported as editing control device but not a much cheaper Loupedeck, something which would also be a sales-promoting argument in my eyes. One could miss the clear indication in business policy to strengthen C1, even in such secondary locations. If that is the case, I am currently lacking the clear signal.

And why I write it all: Because C1 is a good RAW converter + image editor and I want to develop my images also in future and even better with it.
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Re: What has happened to tech support?

Postby photoGrant » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:51 am

Okular wrote:And to add, I would think everything else that promote the market position and sales of C1. An example, thematically a bit off topic here and certainly not relevant for all users but a pointer: Only Tangent is currently supported as editing control device but not a much cheaper Loupedeck, something which would also be a sales-promoting argument in my eyes. One could miss the clear indication in business policy to strengthen C1, even in such secondary locations. If that is the case, I am currently lacking the clear signal.

And why I write it all: Because C1 is a good RAW converter + image editor and I want to develop my images also in future and even better with it.


I think, and would hope, that they are picking up on this. Student pricing is what made me think this.

A student & loupedeck not only brings them into your world for a cheaper price, but upgrading doesn't mean much outside of investing more into the tools as you progress and you're not trying to convert professionals from one tool to another.

Fingers crossed for a better Capture One future.
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Re: What has happened to tech support?

Postby Samoreen » Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:46 am

Okular wrote:Most of Phase One sales revenue thus come from the software business, so it is generated by C1. That should clearly define the priorities for Phase One management and so we come back to the topic of this thread, primarily to strengthen the product C1 with whatever measures. That would mean implementing improvements that users have been asking for for a long time and this particularly includes user support.


That's a key point, indeed. But I do not draw the same conclusion as you and my statements do not apply to C1 only. It's a matter of fact that many enhancements/fixes/UI design corrections have been requested since a long time. Many of them are obvious but still not implemented. Software being the main source of revenue for the company, one may wonder why these requests are not taken into account. I see one main reason for this : these requests cannot be fulfilled because the initial application design doesn't allow this. C1 has probably entered a late phase of its life where initial design flaws are bubbling up and make further development and enhancements difficult without redesigning it. This happens to a lot of software.

So, C1 cannot be significantly enhanced without massively re-investing in development. That's exactly what "after-the-fact-owners" do not want. They want profits from an existing software having a large number of licensees. New major versions with no significant enhancements will be released every year, which means good revenue without much development effort (C1 20 being a good example). Most of the time, as BeO explained above, this approach goes along with cuts in the development team and extended use of offshore development (which usually means loss of quality and slow handling of bugs).

This is a well-known scheme that applies to Lightroom, Photoshop, Microsoft Office, and to so many other mainstream applications. This is why Adobe switched to the subscription model in order to maintain (and even increase) their revenue. If you want applications that will significantly evolve in the near future, you should look at more recent players like DxO Photolab, Affinity Photo, etc. Otherwise, don't hold you breath, nothing really significant will happen. You'll just continue to pay big money for marginal changes.
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Re: What has happened to tech support?

Postby BeO » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:02 pm

Okular wrote:And why I write it all: Because C1 is a good RAW converter + image editor and I want to develop my images also in future and even better with it.


Me too. Keep fingers crossed.

Your post is very interesting too.

Samoreen wrote:... one may wonder why these requests are not taken into account. I see one main reason for this : these requests cannot be fulfilled because the initial application design doesn't allow this. C1 has probably entered a late phase of its life where initial design flaws are bubbling up and make further development and enhancements difficult without redesigning it.


I hope you are wrong.

I once had a major issue with an older version (Comask files of old images, although not touched, had been recreated for no apparent reason, as if a background process liked to use my hardware ressources just for fun, if I remember right).

The support team at that time helped me alot, really, and finally fixed the bug.

However, as it was a tricky thing so solve I felt the need to look into the SQL database, write some SQL queries, doing some analyse etc. Let me put it like this: I felt that the database lacks a good, thought-through (relational) design, it felt it was "historcally grown", a lot of redundant data and low level of so called "normalization". For me, this explains the relative weakness of the DAM.

I think they changed a lot including better performance but I doubt they made a redesign of the database, as this would have been, as you said, probably a bigger effort and also bears some risks.

Indeed is not atypical for small software which grows over time. It is also very often that application developers are not necessary the best database designers. And even more often that the development and design people don't get enough time to do it the right way or even redesign parts of the application and database as they would like to, because the new version must get out of the door by management decision or market (or investor) pressure.

Would we have accepted a new major version, with major parts redesigned, but less new features released due to the fact that the development capacity was used for re-design and re-implementation? And maybe even more bugs in the beginning, as often with re-designs? Maybe, maybe not.

This all having said, I might be totally wrong, or at least partially.

I also feel that the last versions (v10 upwards), generally speaking, have improved regarding stability and performance. Sometimes it feels like two steps forward and one step back, but overall it has improved.

A bit slow with new feature though.
The plugin concept is somehow compelling because specialist software is often the "right tool for the job", but I do not like this roundtrip workflow very much, it adds complexity to the workflow which I do not like. I'd rather like to see more functions implemented in C1 even if not the cutting edge of its kind. For example, I do not expect focus stacking, but exposure stacking (and alignment). And maybe a plugin for panorama stichting.

However, I am patient with Phase One, because after all:

Okular wrote:C1 is a good RAW converter + image editor and I want to develop my images also in future and even better with it.


Cheers
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Re: What has happened to tech support?

Postby Wesley » Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:57 am

BeO wrote:Grant, I couldnt' agree more.

Btw., my online bank does no longer support ios 10 on my iphone 4s which is considered "ancient technology" by some, although it is just a couple of years old. So I am forced to buy a new phone, a TAN generator or change my bank.
And, as I know you have or have had a Dell mobile workstation: Many keys on my M4500 are out of order now, though only 7 years old Dell does not have a single spare keyboard in their storage anymore ...

MP3 players have replaced high fidelity audio systems from the 80s, and smart phones will replace, or have already for most people, hi fidelity cameras. Quantity and convenience over quality. But there is a niche market for high END audio systems, even high end streaming, and I believe camera industry goes the same route...

An iPhone 4S is nearly a decade old, hardly a couple years old. It has the 30 pin connector for crying out loud :wink:

I owned the 4 and now use the 6 which would be borderline ancient tech so even I would consider the 4S ancient.
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Re: What has happened to tech support?

Postby ClauS » Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:54 pm

ClauS wrote:On December 18th I had reported a couple of bugs I was experiencing (one related to upgraded sessions). They replied on Christmas day! :shock: A couple of days later I've sent them logs and a session database as asked by support and later I've reported other bugs in the same conversation (one related to a very annoying bug on catalogs) but I never had a reply since then. Not the support I was used to.


They took exactly 30 days to reply again adducing that they are experiencing a large volume of cases due to the last release. One of two things is possible: too many problems with CO20 (which would be really really bad) or an understaffed department.
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Re: What has happened to tech support?

Postby Keith Reeder » Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:52 pm

ClauS wrote:or an understaffed department.

Welcome to capitalism...
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Re: What has happened to tech support?

Postby NNN635040576084044010 » Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:29 pm

Yes it is pathetic not sure what is going on, maybe I should not have migrated from LR to C1? Beginning to second guess my decision!
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