Switching from LR – Mostly great, a few problems

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Switching from LR – Mostly great, a few problems

Postby Luc_ » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:37 pm

Let’s start by saying that C1 20 made me switch from LR, which I have been using since the first version in 2006.

It won’t be a surprise here, but if I have to give some reasons, here is the top 3:
1. Better RAW engine
I have reprocessed several hundreds images in the last month, and most of the time the result was instantly better with C1 compared to LR. It was mainly wildlife and macro, I still have to work on my landscape pictures.
The colors are definitively better and some details just seemed to pop where there was almost none in LR.
2. Speed
It’s sad to notice that one can forget what a fast computer is becoming, version after version of LR.
So the computer was not problem at all, and blazingly fast it really is. It’s again a pleasure to edit photos ;-)
3. Layers
They are fun to use, very flexible and the masking system is just awesome compared to what LR is proposing/imposing


So C1 is so good that I can’t help to think that it would be even better if…
I know it’s unfair to the development team: the problem part is often longer than the thank you part.
Just know, that if C1 was not even close to good I wouldn’t even bother to list anything.


So here are the problems I have with this version (13.0.0.155).
Currently edited image stuck: it happened to me several times and it is quite annoying. In fact the currently edited image is stuck and you can’t change it.
Solution: restart C1.

No response from sliders: a few times some sliders are not having any effect on the edited image (not all of them, it would have been too simple).
Solution: restart C1.

Strange effects from sliders: twice I had a slider desaturate the image. The slider was not related to saturation, but any value other than the default one was provoking a huge (but not complete) desaturation of the image.
Solution: restart C1.

Corrupted image generated: it happened a few times when editing in PS. The generated TIFF was visibly corrupted. Once it was correct but was containing the cropping path inside the TIFF file, prompting PS to open it using Adobe RAW.
Solution: free some memory. I have 32 Gb but sometimes I got lazy.

Impossible to Edit/Open With from a Smart Album: if you try to Edit/Open With an image from a Smart Album you get an error message.
I don’t understand why so it’s a bug to me.
C1 suggests to first show the image in the library before doing so. Why doesn’t it propose to do just that instead of just saying impossible?

Crashes: not one in one month of quite intensive usage. I got kicked out once, but I was really, really low on available memory so that one is on me.
BTW, contrary to LR, C1 is playing nice with the memory: (a) it uses it (b) it gives it back when finished. No need to reboot to get some of it back.

Structure and highlights: I have several example, in macro photography where even a small value in Structure is massively clipping in the highlights. I did try all the methods but to no avail.
If needed I have a few RAW images that are exhibiting the behavior. Try with butterflies in sunlight, its’ a nightmare.
On this one the new Structure in LR is less punchy but does not create that kind of result.
Solution: it’s complicated and I tend to use several layers to limit the highlight clipping when it’s really annoying.

And I have a very long wish list, but I would prefer to have these problems fixed before.

Thanks,
Luc
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Re: Switching from LR – Mostly great, a few problems

Postby SFA » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:50 pm

Luc_

Firstly I probably should point out that this is a User to User forum not an official Support forum.

You may already know that but just in case you did not I thought I should mention it.

For your list of problems ... many of them sound like they have potential be related to GPU based processing.

In the Preferences do you have Hardware Acceleration set to "Auto" or "None"? (Also does the system report there that Hardware accelration is active?)

If it is "Auto" change it to "None" as an experiment to see of any of the problems go away.

If they do then there are 2 more things to check.

Firstly has the Kernel for the GPU been "built" successfully when C1 starts. (There are some Help documents that related to this and explain how to force the kernel to be rebuilt.)

Secondly is the current driver for the GPU(s) up to date and, if it is, is the "up to date driver" really the best one to be using (not always the case!)

But first run the test with what you have since if you are set to "None" anyway the other checks should not matter.


Grant
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Re: Switching from LR – Mostly great, a few problems

Postby IanS » Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:03 pm

Luc_ wrote:Let’s start by saying that C1 20 made me switch from LR, which I have been using since the first version in 2006.

It won’t be a surprise here, but if I have to give some reasons, here is the top 3:
1. Better RAW engine
I have reprocessed several hundreds images in the last month, and most of the time the result was instantly better with C1 compared to LR. It was mainly wildlife and macro, I still have to work on my landscape pictures.
The colors are definitively better and some details just seemed to pop where there was almost none in LR.
2. Speed
It’s sad to notice that one can forget what a fast computer is becoming, version after version of LR.
So the computer was not problem at all, and blazingly fast it really is. It’s again a pleasure to edit photos ;-)
3. Layers
They are fun to use, very flexible and the masking system is just awesome compared to what LR is proposing/imposing


So C1 is so good that I can’t help to think that it would be even better if…
I know it’s unfair to the development team: the problem part is often longer than the thank you part.
Just know, that if C1 was not even close to good I wouldn’t even bother to list anything.


So here are the problems I have with this version (13.0.0.155).
Currently edited image stuck: it happened to me several times and it is quite annoying. In fact the currently edited image is stuck and you can’t change it.
Solution: restart C1.

No response from sliders: a few times some sliders are not having any effect on the edited image (not all of them, it would have been too simple).
Solution: restart C1.

Strange effects from sliders: twice I had a slider desaturate the image. The slider was not related to saturation, but any value other than the default one was provoking a huge (but not complete) desaturation of the image.
Solution: restart C1.

Corrupted image generated: it happened a few times when editing in PS. The generated TIFF was visibly corrupted. Once it was correct but was containing the cropping path inside the TIFF file, prompting PS to open it using Adobe RAW.
Solution: free some memory. I have 32 Gb but sometimes I got lazy.

Impossible to Edit/Open With from a Smart Album: if you try to Edit/Open With an image from a Smart Album you get an error message.
I don’t understand why so it’s a bug to me.
C1 suggests to first show the image in the library before doing so. Why doesn’t it propose to do just that instead of just saying impossible?

Crashes: not one in one month of quite intensive usage. I got kicked out once, but I was really, really low on available memory so that one is on me.
BTW, contrary to LR, C1 is playing nice with the memory: (a) it uses it (b) it gives it back when finished. No need to reboot to get some of it back.

Structure and highlights: I have several example, in macro photography where even a small value in Structure is massively clipping in the highlights. I did try all the methods but to no avail.
If needed I have a few RAW images that are exhibiting the behavior. Try with butterflies in sunlight, its’ a nightmare.
On this one the new Structure in LR is less punchy but does not create that kind of result.
Solution: it’s complicated and I tend to use several layers to limit the highlight clipping when it’s really annoying.

And I have a very long wish list, but I would prefer to have these problems fixed before.

Thanks,
Luc


Given your list of problems with crashes etc it sounds like you may have a corrupt installation. Try uninstalling and re-download C1 20, reinstall and see if that helps. I have seen no issues using Win 10 Pro (1909 build 18363.535).

With any difficult images try changing the default curve, under base characteristics, to Linear. This will give you a better starting point. A quick auto levels and exposure will usually get you to a good starting point.

LR doesn't have levels so make sure you set these. Auto is fine provided that you have set the levels you want and make sure channels are set to RGB. I use 255 for the highlight level as I don't want any clipping.

Levels are also important with regard to the use of the new Black and White sliders in the HDR panel. These sliders are not the same as the Black and White sliders in LR which set the Black and White point, Levels does that automatically in C1. It is important to set the levels, just use auto, as the new Black and White sliders use the set levels as a sort of "stop point" for their adjustments.

LR's texture slider is part way between C1's clarity and structure. C1's clarity (you have several types) works better than in LR and you can push it harder without breaking the image. Might be worth trying clarity?

To tame the clipping have you tried the curves or levels tools? Those are very powerful tools and should deal with it.

I used LR from V1-6 before switching to C1. The tools are different and it takes some time to adjust to the new tools.

Hope this helps.

Please put an image on dropbox so that we can see for ourselves the issues.
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Re: Switching from LR – Mostly great, a few problems

Postby Luc_ » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:00 pm

@Grant @IanS

Thanks for your comments.

First I don't think that the installation is faulty or corrupted. I have been able to work for hours on end without any problem.
The bugs described occurred at most twice in the same day, so it is not really that big a deal. Just annoying when it happens.

BTW, I have a nVidia GTX 1070, but the drivers were not up to date. It is the case now, so hopefully some of the problems will be gone.

I will check back in a few days to report that (or the contrary).

So far the hardware acceleration is set to Auto and the kernel for the GPU was successfully created.
I did try to set it to None but it was so much slower that I put it back to Auto.

And thanks for the trick with the layers. I didn't know that it had an influence on the white and black HDR sliders.
I did try a few things and it already helped a lot.

I will continue to experiment and will post a before/after image if I am still not able to fix the Structure blowing the highlights.

Thanks,
Luc
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Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:21 pm

Re: Switching from LR – Mostly great, a few problems

Postby gusferlizi » Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:10 pm

I have 16GB of RAM on an Ivy Bridge ultrabook from 2013 and I can load up together (albeit small projects) and work with Illustrator, InDesign, Premiere Pro, Photoshop, Capture One, Chrome with a metric ton of tabs (many suspended with "The Great Suspender"); if not more things, and not run out of RAM.

How are you getting out of memory crashes/misbehaviour?
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Re: Switching from LR – Mostly great, a few problems

Postby Luc_ » Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:26 am

@gusferlizi

I also have a metric ton of open tabs in Firefox, and some of them are gobling memory like candies.
So I close FF and PS to reclaim some of the memory back.

Usually when around 25 Gb is used, things are starting to deteriorate.
BTW, with LR problems started around 16 Gb and it was slow from the start.

I will check if there is a Great Suspender equivalent for FF.

Thanks,
Luc
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