Noise Reduction

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Noise Reduction

Postby NNN636980637400917811 » Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:40 pm

I submitted a case on this but PhaseOne seems to be overloaded with issues in V20. Anyone else experiencing an issue with Noise Reduction where, when using the Luminance slider, regardless of the amount, the photo in the edit window does NOT reflect the changes? Also, under, 'Focus', when the slider is below 50%, the image in the 'Focus' window is identical in terms of 'grain' displayed as the larger image in the edit window, i.e. not displaying the desired luminance setting. When the slider hits 50%, the image now appears to have the applied luminance setting under the focus window only, skin tones are smoother and the grain is reduced as desired. I have pushed the Luminance slider to 100 and exported the photo to find that the desired setting was applied, it just doesn't seem to display in the edit window.

Thank you,

Tom.
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Re: Noise Reduction

Postby SFA » Fri Dec 13, 2019 3:55 pm

Not noticed that Tom.

Try, as a quick test, setting the preferences for Use Hardware acceleration to NONE.

Then re-check.

Still the same?

If not there is a chance that the check for GPUs and regeneration of the kernel to drive processing has failed or has a problem with the available driver for the GPU.

If so I would firstly check the related log file for any possible error reports.

Then either force a re-run of the kernel generation process and re-test with Acceleration back on (assuming no errors reported) or go straight for a GPU latest driver check (or previous if you have the latest and are-build attempt has already failed more than once), install it and repeat the process.

If you turn the Activities tool on and leave it on before closing C1 it should re-open when you restart and the GPU assessment routine, if slow enough, should be reported there perhaps giving some clue about what is happening without needing to check the log file.


HTH.


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Re: Noise Reduction

Postby NNN636980637400917811 » Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:04 pm

Thank you, I quickly tried displaying the activities window but nothing is displayed in that window. Let me review the other suggestions...
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Re: Noise Reduction

Postby NNN636980637400917811 » Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:06 pm

I should also note that this is happening both on my Windows Laptop, Inspiron 15 5000 series Core I7 8th gen and my iMac, late 2015 running Catalina.
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Re: Noise Reduction

Postby Paul_Steunebrink » Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:46 pm

IIRC, the Noise Reduction setting is only applied to the preview from 50% and higher. In the past, some versions back, it was 100% and higher.

So yes, you don't see any effect of the Noise Reduction adjustments with magnifications below 50%. This is by design.
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Re: Noise Reduction

Postby NNN636980637400917811 » Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:58 pm

Thank you Paul. So now I am a bit confused as I don't remember this behavior in V12. If my image is displayed with no magnification, i.e. 'Fit' and I apply Luminance, say 100, I have to zoom in 50% or more to see what was applied but I will not be able to get a good view, perception of what the photo will look like in it's entirety?
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Re: Noise Reduction

Postby NNN636980637400917811 » Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:09 pm

One other thing I just noticed is that adjustments made to the 'Color' slider under, 'Noise Reduction' are reflected in the image, even when it 'Fit' the window and not zoomed in 50%.
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Re: Noise Reduction

Postby Paul_Steunebrink » Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:09 pm

NNN636980637400917811 wrote:Thank you Paul. So now I am a bit confused as I don't remember this behavior in V12. If my image is displayed with no magnification, i.e. 'Fit' and I apply Luminance, say 100, I have to zoom in 50% or more to see what was applied but I will not be able to get a good view, perception of what the photo will look like in it's entirety?

Yes. But is it really a problem? You can open the Focus windows, floating if you like, on top of your Viewer. Another alternative is to use Recipe Proofing from the View menu.

You could ask yourself whether you are able to review noise reduction with lower magnification, assuming Capture One would allow you that? I can't.

It is by design to save processing power during normal editing. For detail editing with the pixel tools like noise reduction and sharpening, magnification is necessary anyway.

Please note that today, sharpening is applied at low magnification levels, set to Fit. But Recipe Proofing is a better alternative, I think.
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Re: Noise Reduction

Postby NNN636980637400917811 » Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:22 pm

It is as I cannot evaluate the full perception of the shot with the noise removed/reduced and If I have to zoom to 50%, I cannot see the full photo. Workarounds are fine but slow down my workflow. This was not evident in 12, I would have noticed it. I may have to see if I can downgrade one of my installations to 12 for comparison. I appreciate all your assistance.
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Re: Noise Reduction

Postby NNN636980637400917811 » Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:43 pm

One other note, on my iMac, I followed the procedures to rebuild OpenCL, I set acceleration to never as a test and now whenever I try to move the Luminance slider, Capture one crashes and restarts.
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Re: Noise Reduction

Postby SFA » Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:18 pm

Tom,

A couple of thoughts.

I suspect my images (from older cameras) are lower resolution than yours and probably more susceptible to presenting obvious noise. So I tend to see the effects of changes somewhat even at fit on my screen. But it can be subtle. Less so if using a low res jpg of dubious quality! Always handy for testing ...

The potential result are far nicer at 100% even when one knows they will be compromised when resized and compressed.

As Paul has said - Proofing should help.

Also, if I understood the release information correctly, the NR tool has been significantly changed under the hood with the intention of giving an improved result by default taking into account the camera and its current settings. It always did that to some extent as I understand but the numbers and method have changed with the new development.

Now on that basis IF the particular combination of circumstances you are working with starts with a better default adjustment you are likely to find that making further adjustments may not have as much effect as it used to have - which adjustment would therefore be harder to see. Or so one would hope.

I ran a comparison using some fairly high resolution but high ISO Sony files initially edited in V12.

I cloned a v12 edit in V20 and changed the Processing engine from V12 to V20. I also created a new variant and edited that totally in V20.

There were clear differences at the starting point for default NR settings and in the results achievable.

That said if you want a full "Liquefy" option you may be disappointed! There is an upper adjustment limit (or so it seems) that cannot be exceeded even using layers.


HTH.


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Re: Noise Reduction

Postby SFA » Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:23 pm

NNN636980637400917811 wrote:One other note, on my iMac, I followed the procedures to rebuild OpenCL, I set acceleration to never as a test and now whenever I try to move the Luminance slider, Capture one crashes and restarts.


That sounds very odd. Never should mean that the GPU is ignored for C1 purposes so how the two actions could be related is unclear.

I woudl assume that C1 will still attempt to check and possibly rebuild the kernel at start up - which may take a while. Could be problematic if is hangs (See the Activities display) or fails. Not sure what would happen if it was taking a long time and you started processing anyway ... for example.

I'm not a Mac person so I'll leave that for others to discuss.


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Re: Noise Reduction

Postby NNN636980637400917811 » Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:09 pm

Grant, I appreciate both perspectives. I am also in the process of trying to get a trial version of 12 installed on another Win10 machine but first I have to figure out what in the heck is going on with the iMac now...I am in IT and I ought to know better than to go with .0 version of anything...LOL
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Re: Noise Reduction

Postby NNN636980637400917811 » Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:43 pm

Just an update. I reinstalled v20 on my iMac and the application is no longer crashing when I move the Luminance slider. I also installed V12 on another laptop and yes, it appears there has been much improvement in the Noise Reduction feature and the behavior is the same as in V20. I think what was mentioned earlier that with the improvements, the initial correction is more spot on so any adjustments aren't as noticed. I will continue to use and test and thank everyone for their advice.

Tom
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Re: Noise Reduction

Postby NNN636980637400917811 » Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:10 pm

so, I noticed that after a reinstall and confirming the updated version of v20 for the iMac, the Luminance bar was now working in that changes were being displayed without having to zoom in or view in proof mode. Then, my iMac said an upgrade was available. So I upgraded to Catalina. Now the application crashes shortly after starting and beginning to work on a photo. I have a case open and have sent logs & requested information. CapOne seems to be inundated with tickets based upon response time. Not a cozy feeling. IMHO, seems like this version was released a bit too soon.
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