Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

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Re: Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

Postby Paul_Steunebrink » Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:16 pm

Tip: perform verification on your catalogs. You find the command in the File menu.
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Re: Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

Postby NN245802UL » Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:42 pm

I have checked my catalogs and all are OK (that said the C1).

One more clue:
When I import new Pictures, I have preselected a user Style for all of them.
If the copy from a variant-source to a variant-target and that variant-tyarget already have a user style, if I delete in the variant-target the user style (before paste) and then paste, all woks well.
So I thing the problem is a fight amont values of the parameters in the variant-target, styles in that variant and values and styles from parameters of the variant-source
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Re: Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

Postby Paul_Steunebrink » Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:20 am

You could investigate that particular style or make renew the style. With renewing the style I mean that you save the style again with CO20.
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Re: Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

Postby NN245802UL » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:09 pm

Done.
The problem continue.
The only way that work for me is: deleting the style from the variant and put then again (no mater if the user style is saved in old version or new version )
The other way (more drastically) y over variant-target (one o several ) reseting to origin: Adjustments -> Reset or press Cmd/Ctrl+R
I will try if new import pictures with the new version of user style ade with CO20 work well or is a general problem of incompatible order when the program (CO20) set parameters when copy and paste.
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Re: Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

Postby nvdg » Thu Dec 19, 2019 10:10 am

I tried making a completely new style in CO 20, but the problem persists.

The only way I can be 100% sure all adjustments get applied is if I apply them to a "clean" image, meaning an image that hasn't had any adjustments made to it. Let's say I have two images ("image1" and "image2") and I apply the same style to both images. If I then make some adjustments to "image1" and try to copy those over to "image2" nothing happens. Or weird stuff happens. I just dragged the Exposure, Contrast, Brightness and Saturation sliders of "image1" all the way to the left (so they're at -4, -50, -50 and -100 respectively). I then copied those adjustments and tried to apply them to "image2". Only the Exposure and Saturation gets changed. Contrast and Brightness don't change. :?

It's so random. Isn't there something I can do? Delete preferences or something? Or should I backup my catalog and styles and reinstall CO 20?
Last edited by nvdg on Fri Dec 20, 2019 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

Postby PhaseoneUser115057 » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:42 pm

I'm having the same issue on a Mac. UNLIKE others, I have the problem even on new sessions created in 20.0.1 with new images (nothing coming over from 12).

I can copy and apply changes ONE time and then it breaks. Constantly! New session, new images, tweak adjustments on one image (all the usual - exposure, saturation, curves, highlight/shadow), copy those and apply them to all the images. Works - the FIRST time. Then decide I want to make a few more adjustments. Make the adjustments on one image, copy and select all the images (as before) and try to apply - NO go. Nothing happens.
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Re: Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

Postby PhaseoneUser115057 » Thu Dec 19, 2019 9:14 pm

Just curious Mac users with this issue, what model Mac are you using? Older???

I've been nursing along my Mac Pro 2009 (waiting for the finally released replacement) with upgraded firmware (4,1 to 5,1 to allow upgrading OS) and processor. Here are the specs...

Processor: 2 x 3.33 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon
Memory: 128 GB 1333 MHz DDR3
Graphics: AMD Radeon HD 7950 3072 MB
OS: High Sierra 10.13.6

Is my (our??) older/modified machine(s) enough of a corner case that these issues won't have a solution? Does the age/build/OS version even matter?

On a side note, pretty amazing I've used this machine over ten years!!! Hopefully I'll be able to do the same with the new Mac Pro. Knowing I could would definitely take the sting out of the custom build pricing for a new one.
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Re: Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

Postby nvdg » Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:53 am

I'm experiencing the exact same thing. Applying adjustments only works to an image that hasn't had any prior adjustments done to it. If I try to apply adjustments to an image that already has had some adjustments done to it, it doesn't work. Or some things get copied over but some don't.

Here are my machine specs:

MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015)
Processor: 2.5 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7
Memory: 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
Graphics: Intel Iris Pro 1536 MB
OS: Catalina 10.15.1

Don't think it's related to the system though. Couldn't it have something to do with old preferences or settings from my previous version on C1 (C1 11) interfering with C1 20?
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Re: Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

Postby SFA » Fri Dec 20, 2019 11:28 am

Do these odd situations only occur when a style is involved? (Or maybe also one or more presets?)

If so are the settings in the "copy from " file for the adjustment values set by the style still the same as the setting saved in the style? Or have they been further changed?

If the "Copy to" file already has a style applied should the "Copy From" file values (if different to the style values) be applied or not? (If they are not different then nothing would change anyway for that tool and adjustment combination.)



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Re: Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

Postby SFA » Fri Dec 20, 2019 12:25 pm

SFA wrote:Do these odd situations only occur when a style is involved? (Or maybe also one or more presets?)

If so are the settings in the "copy from " file for the adjustment values set by the style still the same as the setting saved in the style? Or have they been further changed?

If the "Copy to" file already has a style applied should the "Copy From" file values (if different to the style values) be applied or not? (If they are not different then nothing would change anyway for that tool and adjustment combination.)



Grant


Just in case the question above seems to lead to some sort of relevance I thought it might be useful to link to the Help information for the Styles tool.

https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002619858-Copying-Styles-between-images

I don't often use styles (other than for pre-loading some metadata at import which is done for every image) so the particular quirks of copy styles between images are not things that are second nature to me. Maybe they are to someone else who is willing to share their experience.


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Re: Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

Postby nvdg » Sat Dec 21, 2019 1:30 am

It does seem to have something to do with styles. Here are two situations that I just tested a bunch of times:

Situation 1 (no styles)
- Image 1: I drag all the Exposure, White Balance and High Dynamic Range sliders to the LEFT
- Image 2: I drag all the Exposure, White Balance and High Dynamic Range sliders to the RIGHT
- I copy the adjustments from Image 1 and apply them to Image 2. All changes are applied. No problem.

Situation 2 (with style)
- I apply Style 1 to Image 1 and Image 2. The Exposure settings in Style 1 are: Exposure 0, Contrast 8, Brightness -7, Saturation 0. Right now both images have the same adjustments.
- I go back to Image 1 and drag the Exposure sliders to the left, so Exposure -4, Contrast -50, Brightness -50, Saturation -100. I then copy those Exposure adjustments from Image 1 (they are all checked in the Adjustments Clipboard) and I apply them to Image 2. Only Exposure changes to -4 and Saturation changes to -100. Contrast and Brightness don't change and stay at 8 and -7.

So it seems that when a style is involved, adjustments don't get applied to values that have already been adjusted by the style. This seems very strange behavior and I've never had this happen in CO 11. Is there a new setting somewhere that I have missed?
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Re: Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

Postby SFA » Sat Dec 21, 2019 12:41 pm

nvdg wrote:It does seem to have something to do with styles. Here are two situations that I just tested a bunch of times:

....

So it seems that when a style is involved, adjustments don't get applied to values that have already been adjusted by the style. This seems very strange behavior and I've never had this happen in CO 11. Is there a new setting somewhere that I have missed?


Is it the other way around?

You have a Style that has 4 values available in a tool of which the style sets non-zero values for 2 options.

You apply the style to an image and then modify its parameters for all 4 values.

Is it still the Style that was defined? None of the 4 values for that tool now relate to the style's values.

Copy the new values for that tool to the Clipboard and, if you are selecting based on Adjusted Values being Automatically ticked for use, all 4 values will be ticked. Adjusted values mean, for the purpose of this discussion, any tool value that is not as the default setting.

Now it is also worth looking at the list of Prefixes and Styles applied to the image from which the adjustments are being copied. You will need the Styles and Presets tool and the Clipboard open to have the most complete view of the adjustment under the hood.

If you are copying the Style or Preset its values will be applied to the image to which you are copying UNLESS the values have been modified in your "Copy From" image. If they have the Preset or Style name shown in the Styles and Presets tool will have an indicator alongside. "Adjusted" and, maybe "Overridden". Hover your mouse over the name and the information becomes available.

So to take your example you have a tool with 4 values. In the Preset or Style applied two of the values are adjusted from the default (in this case the default in V20 is zero for all sliders in the tool). These two adjusted values now represent the specifically adjusted values that make up the "Style". The zero values for the other 2 values indicates "no specific setting" therefore are not part of the Style Adjustments since the they tell us nothing about the final value of that parameter after editing.

You now change all 4 values. So none of the values are valid for the Style - in effect the Style no longer exists for that variant of the image. HOWEVER it is still in the list of things to be copied to the Clipboard and applied during the "paste" activity. In effect the choices in the clipboard control what is an what is not copied and the style settings where there are any, will be applied in an attempt to deliver that style as defined. If the style has no instructions about some of the values then the assumption would be that they have no specific influence on the effect the style delivers so take whatever value does exist in the clipboard.

So in your example you have no Style specified values for Exposure and Saturation in the Style and those values are ticked to be transferred in the Clipboard so they are used.

On the other hand the Style specifies values for Contrast and Brightness and those values take precedence over any pre-existing settings since they are part of the style definition. If they did not take precedence applying a style could become a very convoluted process.

That said things could get very complex if using multiple styles and presets where more than one of them made adjustment related to the same tool values.

Ultimate control lies in which fields are ticked in the Clipboard and whether styles are copied, applied and then retained.

I could see this subject area and the levels of decision making complexity that it might involve being an interesting subject for a Tutorial of some sort.

My instinct is to lean more and more towards keeping things as simple as possible!

If it seems to be an area of functionality that one's workflow cannot easily avoid then take a chunk of time to experiment with it and become fully familiarised with all of the aspects and logical decisions that need to be made deciding which edits need to be retained and which changed for one's purposes.

If there are specific rule sets that it may be possible to define and apply repeatedly there may be a basis for having some sort of "recipe" type controls to deliver them. It might be an interesting challenge to work out what would need to be considered for such an approach.

Just my observations.

Does this go some way towards explaining what people are experiencing?


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Re: Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

Postby NN245802UL » Tue Dec 24, 2019 4:29 pm

any advance in that problem?
This is a big problem to me because I copy form one variant to another all the time.
An i think the problem is clear:
When you have a variant that have parameters changed by a Syle, the future pastes over that parameters of thar variant is ignored.
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Re: Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

Postby SFA » Tue Dec 24, 2019 6:49 pm

NN245802UL wrote:any advance in that problem?
This is a big problem to me because I copy form one variant to another all the time.
An i think the problem is clear:
When you have a variant that have parameters changed by a Syle, the future pastes over that parameters of thar variant is ignored.


Remove the Style if you wish to retain the adjustments.

Keep the style if you wish the style settings to be the final adjustment.

And;

Manage which values are applied using the tic boxes for the Adjustments Clipboard.
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Re: Copy and Paste Sharpening Adjastment

Postby NN245802UL » Thu Dec 26, 2019 12:45 pm

Well this is not a solution at all.
When importing I put a Sytle with the parameters at a starting point.
Then I make the adjustements individual for every variant (some time copying from another if in the same serie,
Then I appply styles by creating a new layer with a style.
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