Picture counter Album etc.

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Picture counter Album etc.

Postby NNN636818961155133822 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:52 pm

Hi,

new to the software Capture One 12.1 I can't understand how the counter for Album, Smart Album etc. works. Probably I'm just missing something ... :oops:

The case is: I've a catalog, imported all my pictures, created below "User Collations" a Smart Album and a few normal Album's for testing. Then I put a few picture in the normal Album.

What I don't understand:
The Smart Album content is as expected filled with everything what is covered by the filter. That's good but what isn't good is that the Folder counter shows no number at all regarding to how many picture are now in that folder.
Why not?

Then the normal Album: For testing I put 1 picture in one folder and the folder counter shows 2.
Then another Album has 2 picture and the counter tells me 4. That makes no sense!

What I'm doing wrong? The folder counter should count the actual content, or not?
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Re: Picture counter Album etc.

Postby Ian3 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:15 pm

The album content should show the correct number, but it may be that you have images with more than one variant and they will be counted twice.

Smart albums don't show the number of images they contain. One explanation I have seen is that to do that Capture One would have to keep recalculating every time you for instance changed a star rating, or a keyword or whatever your criteria are for the smart album.

Ian
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Re: Picture counter Album etc.

Postby NNN636818961155133822 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:11 pm

Thank you for your quick and helpful response!

Ian3 wrote:The album content should show the correct number, but it may be that you have images with more than one variant and they will be counted twice.Ian


I tested your hint and you are right. If I have variants IN THE SOURCE folder it will be counted too in the Album folder regardless that the variants are NOT in that Album.
I would consider that as a bug because the counter should count what is actually in (or linked to) the Album folder and not somewhere else.
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Re: Picture counter Album etc.

Postby Ian3 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:11 pm

NNN636818961155133822 wrote:Thank you for your quick and helpful response!

Ian3 wrote:The album content should show the correct number, but it may be that you have images with more than one variant and they will be counted twice.Ian


I tested your hint and you are right. If I have variants IN THE SOURCE folder it will be counted too in the Album folder regardless that the variants are NOT in that Album.
I would consider that as a bug because the counter should count what is actually in (or linked to) the Album folder and not somewhere else.

It’s not a bug, because it was designed like that. The only circumstances in which you can have two variants not in the same album is in a smart album. (Look back through the forum and you’ll find that a lot of users say they think it should be different!)

Ian
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Re: Picture counter Album etc.

Postby NNN636818961155133822 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:20 am

Ian3 wrote:It’s not a bug, because it was designed like that.

Sorry - I'm not convinced by that. That behavior is weird.

Please try to reproduce this case - if you then still think that isn't a bug then I'll give up. :wink:

I imported a new folder (today date) with one photo.
I create a new Album called "Test Album",
I put the photo from the today date folder into the Test Album,
Test Album counter shows 1,
I click on Test Album - it shows 1 photo in the thumbnail section - everything as expected!

Now I click the today date folder and create a variant of that photo - 2 photo thumbnails are presented,
I go back to the Test Album - the counter shows 2, I click on that Album and it shows me only 1 photo. Not expected!

Then I click of that photo in the Album and create a variant of it. Oops! That triggered a correct display of 3 thumbnails. The counter was all the time correct but it wasn't displayed!

That is intend behavior and not a bug? It's hard for me to believe that ... :wink:
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Re: Picture counter Album etc.

Postby Ian3 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:48 am

The problem you are now describing is not quite the same as I understood you were asking about, and what I described as normal behaviour. However, I did as you requested, and created a test album.

(1) I added one image from a recent import to it (by dragging and dropping from the recent imports collection to the album). It shows as 1 image in the album.

(2) I right-clicked the image in the album, choose "show in Library" and thus went to the image in its actual physical folder. I right clicked that in the folder and chose "Clone variant". That resulted in 2 variants in the folder, the count in the album went up to 2 with 2 variants displayed in the album, and also resulted in 2 variants being shown in the recent imports collection.

(3) I went to the recent imports collection, right clicked the second variant and chose "Clone variant" again. That gave me three variants of the image in the recent imports collection, a count of 3 in the album with 3 images shown, and 3 variants shown in the physical folder.

So it's not behaving for me as it is for you, it would seem.

With images having more than one variant, there is a small icon in the top left corner of the thumbnail that stacks or unstacks the variants. It's not to do with that, is it? If you have tried everything including that, I suggest you seek help from Support.

(By the way I don't know whether it makes a difference, but I am on a Mac, not Windows.)

Ian
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Re: Picture counter Album etc.

Postby NNN636818961155133822 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:52 am

Thanks for your effort in this matter. I really appreciate it!

Ian3 wrote:With images having more than one variant, there is a small icon in the top left corner of the thumbnail that stacks or unstacks the variants. It's not to do with that, is it? If you have tried everything including that, I suggest you seek help from Support.


I think that is the crux of the matter! I didn't checked that before (I'm new to P1). With a brief testing it looks like it will trigger the expected behavior. But following your description it sounds like your default is "unstacked" and mine is "stacked".

Is there a way to change that default settings?
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Re: Picture counter Album etc.

Postby Ian3 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:36 pm

There are items on the Image menu for Collapse All and Expand All. Or you can collapse and expand them on a per image basis by clicking the icon on the thumbnail.

Ian
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Re: Picture counter Album etc.

Postby NNN636818961155133822 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:27 pm

Ian3 wrote:There are items on the Image menu for Collapse All and Expand All.


Yep, I've seen that but for my workflow very impractical. Additional I've to do that for every single folder again and again ...

Howsoever - I created a Keyboard Shortcut what is a kind of workaround for me ... :wink:

Thank you Ian for all your help which is quit appreciated.
(If you think now that was my last stupid beginner question then I've to disappoint you again ... :shock:)
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Re: Picture counter Album etc.

Postby Ian3 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:52 pm

NNN636818961155133822 wrote:
Ian3 wrote:There are items on the Image menu for Collapse All and Expand All.


Yep, I've seen that but for my workflow very impractical. Additional I've to do that for every single folder again and again ...

Howsoever - I created a Keyboard Shortcut what is a kind of workaround for me ... :wink:

Thank you Ian for all your help which is quit appreciated.
(If you think now that was my last stupid beginner question then I've to disappoint you again ... :shock:)

Can't you just go to All Images then use Expand All to do it once and for all?

Ian
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Re: Picture counter Album etc.

Postby NNN636818961155133822 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:32 am

Ian3 wrote:Can't you just go to All Images then use Expand All to do it once and for all?

Yes I can do that but if I need to do that for e.g. 5 folder then I have to do that 5 times. A keyboard shortcut is faster ... :wink:
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Re: Picture counter Album etc.

Postby Ian3 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:53 am

NNN636818961155133822 wrote:
Ian3 wrote:Can't you just go to All Images then use Expand All to do it once and for all?

Yes I can do that but if I need to do that for e.g. 5 folder then I have to do that 5 times. A keyboard shortcut is faster ... :wink:

I don't see how you have to do it 5 times. The point of All Images is that it includes every image in all the folders in your catalog. I would expect you would only have to do this once. I never use the collapsed view of variants, and I never have to do anything about it, because I see the expanded view all the time. I'd expect the setting to stick unless you changed it.

Ian

Edited to add: and you can assign a keyboard shortcut to Expand All and Collapse all if you want to, using the Edit Keyboard Shortcuts facility on the Edit menu.
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Re: Picture counter Album etc.

Postby NNN636818961155133822 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:35 pm

Ian3 wrote:The point of All Images is that it includes every image in all the folders in your catalog. I would expect you would only have to do this once. I never use the collapsed view of variants, and I never have to do anything about it, because I see the expanded view all the time. I'd expect the setting to stick unless you changed it.

Sounds like we both know how it should work normally. :wink:

Again: To expand multiple folder I have to expand every single folder by itself. 5 folders means click folder 1, expand all, click folder 2, expand all, click folder 3, expand all, click folder 4, expand all, click folder 5, expand all. Very counter productive!

Expand a catalog completely with one "expand all" command - no way!
Expand all subdirectory below only one main directory - no way!

I guess now you understand why I've ask you for a default setting for this tool.

Sounds like they were more concentrated on the MAC version ... :(
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Re: Picture counter Album etc.

Postby Ian3 » Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:06 am

OK - testing on my catalog shows me that if I go to

- All Images, Expand All and Collapse All are greyed out (as are Expand Selected and Collapse selected)

- Butterflies (a smart album of all images with the keyword butterfly), then again Expand All and Collapse All are greyed out (as are Expand Selected and Collapse selected)

- a folder (one I went to by right clicking one of my butterfly images that had two variants, and choosing Show in Library) then Expand All and Collapse All both work (as do Expand Selected and Collapse selected).

- 2018-10 Forum (a regular non-smart album) then Expand All and Collapse All both work (as do Expand Selected and Collapse selected).

We have to conclude that for some reason this won't work in smart albums (including All Images). That reason is possibly to do with the logic of smart albums. After all it is possible with a smart album (and only with a smart album) to have one variant of an image in the smart album and another variant of it not in it.

So we have established that the reasons for your count discrepancies is that

(a) some images have more than one variant.

(b) For some reason your variants are collapsed (whereas mine are all expanded).

(c) You can't easily expand them all in one go.

Does it matter? You now know why the count is not what you expected. Unless you are looking at a folder, you don't really care whether the variants in it are expanded or collapsed, do you? It only makes a difference to you when you want to look at them. When you are looking at them, you are able to collapse or expand them as you choose (and that should stick). I have almost 34,000 images in my catalog, and many of the folders have not been looked in for quite some time. If I did go to view the contents of a folder that was last looked at 6 months ago, I could easily use Expand All if I needed to, and until I was looking in it, I wouldn't need to perhaps?

Ian
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Re: Picture counter Album etc.

Postby SFA » Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:07 am

Expand and Collapse, for both Selected and All images, are active functions for the "All Images" Session Album in Windows for V12.

This installation is currently V12.0.3 as I am just finishing a couple of shoots before doing some general software updates, but I would doubt 12.1 would be different.

If there are difference it will be something to investigate further.


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