Capture One for Linux

Discussions, questions, comments and suggestions regarding Capture One PRO, Capture One PRO For Sony / Fujifilm, Capture One DB and Capture One Express For Sony / For Fujifilm 12.x for Windows

Capture One for Linux

Postby HansN » Sat Jul 20, 2019 6:53 pm

Dear Phase One team,

Currently I'm running Capture One on Windows 8.1.

After end of life of Win8 I will not upgrade to Win10 (nothing I would like to discuss here) but move to Linux (what I'm already running in parallel. In fact, Capture One is the last software which prevents a full migration to Linux already now.

Can you please comment on any plans with regard to Linux support of Capture One?

Many thanks,
Hans
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Re: Capture One for Linux

Postby Bobtographer » Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:40 pm

this is a user forum, best way to get a response is to visit their website and contact support
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Re: Capture One for Linux

Postby Keith Reeder » Sun Jul 21, 2019 3:05 pm

I've got my popcorn - carry on...
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Re: Capture One for Linux

Postby HansN » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:48 pm

Hi Bobtographer,
I already contacted the support but the only thing I got was
> "we do not comment on development as per our policy. Stay tuned for future updates to Capture One [...]"
which isn't really that helpful.
So by posting here I a) wanted to explore a second channel, b) wanted to see whether this demand resonates with other users as well, and c) check whether others already have successfully tried practical alternatives such as running C1 in wine. So I still find this a not too bad place for posting this question. However, I agree that I probably should have phrased my point more precisely.

Hi Keith,
enjoy your popcorn. However, this post was not intended to just amuse the forum here.

Many thanks!
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Re: Capture One for Linux

Postby SFA » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:25 pm

The last time I used an editor that added Linux to its Win and Mac offerings and then identified a need to upgrade its underlying development environment it went out of business in about a year.

One of the problems (looking at it from the outside - what was going in within the business was another matter) was that Linux users were always full of their own ideas about how to improve the product and which direction it should but never wanted to pay for a license since Linux applications for technically interested 'end users' were, traditionally, free.

That and the complication in those days of many not always compatible variants of Linux.

Later the whole product went to open source and, of course, many of the would be developers had other things to do and a few found themselves unable to allocate for the required time and effort for all sort of perfectly acceptable reasons and everything slowed to a crawl. Or slower.

That's just the way things go it seems.
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Re: Capture One for Linux

Postby Jim MSP » Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:27 pm

Since you are looking for opinions and not promises (users can't do that) I would cast a strong vote against Phase One investing any resources in Linux. I'd agree with most of the arguments written by SFA above.
Linux is free & open source, and will probably always remain that way. The applications will follow the same path.

Right now and in the foreseeable future I would rather see Capture One add/develop a real robust and fully featured DAM & Catalog that was truly state of the art. Any resources put into a 3rd operating system will just take away from photography related development.

Linux has its place, imo, but not with CO. When I had some older machines that had reached end of life with WIn 7, I converted them to Linux and to simple web browsing stations. They work just fine. But probably like a lot of Linux machines, the internal hardware is older and slower. CO would have to be modified to be able to run on the older and slower hardware, and I doubt if many users would be happy with it. One of the biggest complaints today from many photographers running "mature" packages like Lightroom is that they are slow on older hardware. I don't want CO to join that crowd.
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Re: Capture One for Linux

Postby HansN » Mon Jul 22, 2019 6:36 pm

Not sure I'm getting your point. I didn't ask for free software or open source nor for support of old hardware. I'm looking for a way to run a professional software which I paid for on Linux. And I would be willing to pay for the corresponding upgrade again.

Just look at DaVinci Resolve from Blackmagicdesign as a proof that this is possible from both a technical as well as commercial perspective. Why shoulnd't PhaseOne be able to follow that same route?
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Re: Capture One for Linux

Postby Jim MSP » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:26 pm

HansN wrote:Not sure I'm getting your point. I didn't ask for free software or open source nor for support of old hardware. I'm looking for a way to run a professional software which I paid for on Linux. And I would be willing to pay for the corresponding upgrade again.

Sorry - I was thinking about the market, not one user. The market of photographers that I am aware of is almost 50/50 Mac/Windows (forgetting smart phones at this point). I don't know anyone who uses Linux. I don't know anybody that even uses Gimp (they are out there), though I have tried it.
To make the investment in converting to Linux, Phase One would have to be convinced that there is a untapped market for them that would justify the (most likely) substantial and ongoing investment. You can't just convert current users.

HansN wrote:..........
Just look at DaVinci Resolve from Blackmagicdesign as a proof that this is possible from both a technical as well as commercial perspective. Why shoulnd't PhaseOne be able to follow that same route?


I don't use or know much about DaVinci. But when I look at their web site for Resolve I see " DaVinci Resolve runs on all major platforms so you can use it at home or in a post facility on a Mac, at a broadcast facility running Windows, or a VFX studio on Linux. " They see four user market segments. They see Linux as being used in a separate segment. Personally, I am not aware of or do I see a new user segment for Capture One on Linux.
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Re: Capture One for Linux

Postby SFA » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:38 pm

HansN wrote:Not sure I'm getting your point. I didn't ask for free software or open source nor for support of old hardware. I'm looking for a way to run a professional software which I paid for on Linux. And I would be willing to pay for the corresponding upgrade again.

Just look at DaVinci Resolve from Blackmagicdesign as a proof that this is possible from both a technical as well as commercial perspective. Why shoulnd't PhaseOne be able to follow that same route?


Technically it is possible of course.

But is it viable commercially?

I guess that depends on the customer mix (mostly the larger customers who may see some other benefits from abandoning Mac and Windows licences for Linux platforms that they may have (in technical terms) in house already.

Can you be sure that the Resolve software for Linux is self supporting, commercially, outside the broader sale of the rest of their products? Hardware sales are likely to be a much larger part of the business than the software (I suspect - not yet tried to check).

Such a consideration, especially if software on Linux might be used to leverage more hardware box sales, could be a key decision point.

Adobe, so far as I am aware, manufacture no hardware and, again so far as I know, offer no end user applications that run on native Linux.

As we all know, they have a large share of the market we are talking about. Given all of their resources, what stopped them developing a Linux version of all of their products?

(I see Jim MSP has made similar observations and come to similar conclusions about the potential market mix.)



Grant
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Re: Capture One for Linux

Postby Keith Reeder » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:15 pm

There has been a very, very long-running thread on the Affinity Photo forum along the same lines - and despite the number of times it is pointed out that the numbers just don't add up in terms of the business case for a Linux Affinity Photo - The Faithful simply will not take a telling, instead providing innumerable vague (and utterly unevidenced, of course) assurances that - to quote the movie - "if you build it, they will come..."

It comes up on the LightRoom forums regularly too. This is typical:

https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2489255

What's typically typical is the initial assertion by the thread-starter:
Everyone knows that the Linux platform is one of the most used on the planet

Which, when countered with actual facts pertinent to the discussion (ie desktop, not server, use):
This made me curious, so I checked some statistics. Concentrating on the desktop computer market - excluding mobile devices - most of them agree on roughly 80% Windows, roughly 18% MacOS, and 1.5% Linux. What the last 0.5% do, they don't say.

provoked the brilliant - and again typical - counter:
I think otherwise

Well that's Adobe told...

And of course, you get this from one of the zealots who couldn't help but pile in, arrogant snot:
rarely you will find knowledgeable person rooting for windows.

So...
HansN wrote:Hi Keith,
enjoy your popcorn. However, this post was not intended to just amuse the forum here.

Oh, I'm going to enjoy it nevertheless, thanks...

Something that might be pertinent is to reference AfterShot Pro - the only commercial cross-platform (Win/Mac/Linux) Raw converter/DAM I'm aware of.

https://forum.corel.com/EN/viewforum.ph ... 21e2a8e14c

It is an abysmal, dismally under-delivering abandonware car-crash, primarily because it has tried to be all things to all computers.

Phase One would be well advised to learn from this lesson.
Last edited by Keith Reeder on Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Capture One for Linux

Postby Bobtographer » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:21 pm

Adobe had a Unix version of PS back in the 90's.. it died.
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Re: Capture One for Linux

Postby SFA » Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:50 pm

I dislike any results of "surveys" where the responders are self selecting, especially if the numbers are giving close results for two products and ignoring all others and no comments are allowed.

In my experience self selection tends to mean the majority do not bother to take part so the numbers are often interesing but not necessarily commercially indicative of reality.

That said, if anyone is interested in looking at something I stumbled across a few weeks ago, go to YouTube, search for "First Man Photography" and open the Community section.

There you will find a survey concerning which Post Processing application people prefer and a number of interesting comments to follow if one chooses to read them. You have to select your choice of preference before the figures will display.

If you scroll down the Community page posts you will find another survey about which camera brands you use. Also quite interesting but the earliest answers will be up to a year old.

There may be better sources of user numbers (if that is very meaningful).

Claimed numbers of licenses issued might also be interesting, if there is a public source for the data, but discovering how many of the issued licenses are actively used may be more difficult.
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Re: Capture One for Linux

Postby IanL » Tue Jul 23, 2019 8:34 pm

How about a "survey" that uses the stats from 10 million page views from a tracking site that is running on 2 million sites world wide. Based on their data - which reflects some form of actual usage - web surfing the report:
Windows
72.59%
OS X
18.72%
Unknown
4.26%
Chrome OS
2.94%
Linux
1.48%

http://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-sha ... 901-201905

Clearly Phase One would be more interested in the machines used by Photographers but with those numbers I don't see how Linux using Photogs can be a large segment at all.
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Re: Capture One for Linux

Postby Keith Reeder » Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:39 pm

Ah, but they're a very special, important 1.48%, Ian (just ask them... :roll:) - clearly the kind of people that software companies should bankrupt themselves trying to pander to...

I should add that I'm not anti Linux on principle (I'm certainly far less anti Linux than many Penguin zealots are anti Windows...), I just recognise the difference between an OS as an essentially invisible means to an end, and as a hobby in its own right.

I've got a couple of old laptops that I've turned over to Linux, just to see what the fuss is about; and I love my Chromebook, which I use for practically everything apart from image processing.

Actually, given the figures, I think I'll start lobbying Phase One for a Chrome Capture One...
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Re: Capture One for Linux

Postby rhonaldjr » Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:58 pm

Recent Capture one Linux user. Linux users don't like to pay is a myth and it's unproven. Provided the software is good, they are willing to pay more than the windows users. The 2% linux is a myth and I believe it should be around 5% and not 2%. Microsoft admitted that the linux users are more than what's reported by many stats counters.

Also these days cross platform development is not much of an overhead.

I am currently trying to make the GPU passthrough work on my linux workstation so that I can use Capture One pro without leaving Linux.

I currently use Darktable and while it's an excellent software, it lacks camera and lens profile for GFX-50S (with their zoom lenses, etc...)

I would love to pay even double for Capture One Pro Fuji version on Linux.

I guess, I will have to make GPU Passthrough work then.
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