Capture One 12 released!

Discussions, questions, comments and suggestions regarding Capture One PRO, Capture One PRO For Sony / Fujifilm, Capture One DB and Capture One Express For Sony / For Fujifilm 12.x for Windows

Re: Capture One 12 released!

Postby SFA » Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:52 am

Now that's a fantastic, well explained and well argued response.

Thanks!

I had a feeling that if you responded it might read like that.

I'm with you on the phone contract. I don't have one either. But many people, possibly the majority, do and think nothing of it. There are many other very similar situations in our modern lives.

The point, of course, is that with a contract you end up paying for something (or appear to be paying for something) that you cannot possibly use. And you miss out on the new deals that attract new users because you are tied in to a contract with financial penalties to exit or, often, to upgrade. And of course many people end up paying endlessly for a phone they bought as part of the agreement and paid for in 2 years yet continue to pay for until it breaks because they don't like change. (I'm talking older people here, mostly.)

But that is becoming a "New normal" - hence the subscription models.

Or leasing a car - which is heading towards perpetually renting a car. Again, the subscription model.

And of course the well known and seemingly inevitable perpetual churn of customers in the Utilities and Insurance markets.

Meanwhile those wonderful customer centric that are central to our lives, one way or another, the Banks, are, I am reliably told, more than happy to deal with customer complaints - no matter how trivial the complaint might be - by handing out money even as customer service outlets (Branches that people can walk into) are reduced and telephone service, for when the internet is not available or not appropriate, just seems not to work.

But the point is that we need to use parts of those services at some time even if we don't use all of them and in the end there are few differentiators between one supplier and another - other than, perhaps, meaningless offers that we most likely won't use tempting us to jump out of a familiar frying pan into a fire of unknown ferocity.

Insurance - car and house in particular - are regular examples where one may be tempted to change because there is an "introductory deal" for year one. After which the price jumps significantly. So you end up back to ringing the supplier (who is just the front end of a chain of percentage takers leading eventually to an underwriter and a re-insurance business) and 'discussing' the options for reducing the amount they wish to charge. Sometimes they play ball and others not - so you change again and repeat the process at the next renewal. You may even change to a different brand name operated by the same owner.

Of course the change of supplier may or may not mean a reduction or improvement in the cover offered and you no longer have a "history" to play on ("I've been with you for 10 years, what about customer loyalty?") and you are probably heading in to the unknown about what would happen in the even you needed to make a claim.

Such is life, of course. It seems to be more and more difficult to find anyone in the Utilities/Insurance/Banking sectors who care much about 'customer loyalty'. They have all learned how to create and manage churn - and that number counting for customer churn is more measurable in terms of transactions than customer loyalty. What gets measured gets done, no matter how pointless it may be.


There's a lot of C1 I don't use.

Anything that is purely Apple for example. I'm a Windows person.

Catalogues. I'm a sessions person.

However there is a lot I do use quite frequently - perhaps daily at times - and I feel very comfortable with the way that it works. Photoshop and other products just leave me bemused for some reason. They don't seem to do for me what they do for people in tutorial videos!

I found LR V1 OK but not as comfortable as another product I had discovered around that time, but that disappeared form the market because I don;t think they had enough revenue to keep them going for a period required for a major re-write when lots of things were happening in the desktop computer software development industry about 10 years ago.

Fortunately C1 worked in a very similar way back then, though had (and still has) fewer features.

I think we agree about Styles. I'm happy to experiment with a few for getting ideas and some I rather like but when I have looked at applications that are heavily 'pre-set' oriented - in the past mostly AFTER RAW development and applicable only to jpgs or similar in many cases - I noticed that the people presenting and promoting the product in tutorials and webinars almost always used the same filter(s) for the various effects they liked, on every image they processed. The combination gave them their personal 'style' without much thought and certainly very quickly.

Fair enough, if they had gone through experimentation and selection and liked that look and were happy to use it for a while there might then be no need to think too much when being productive. But it seemed a but soulless - like a child painting by numbers and following the lines precisely.

(Of course it is also possibly that they had worked out that the particular combination had a very strong attraction for most people likely to watch the video and came across well on You Tube, Vimeo or whichever medium they were broadcasting through. And of course it was not up to them to guide a user's choice of 'look' or mis-guide and maybe create confusion.)

I have experimented a little with some Fuji files (found on the internet) and the Film settings for V12 and have to say they seem nicely done and more convincing (to me) than just applying a 'filter'.

Like you I'm not a Fuji user. Although my second digital camera was a tiny pocket thing purchased for a trip to the US. Remarkable results from such a tiny fixed lens 2 Mp device. No RAW of course, though I had no idea what RAW was back then! But for SLR I was a long time Canon user and so I mostly went that way when buying a digital body (to use with my old FD mount lenses) became an obvious thing to try. I was just a little disappointed that the complete change in camera design that we saw in the earliest digital cameras (I have a Agfa from about 1998 stored away somewhere) was abandoned in favour of much the same sort of design that 35mm SLR had used for decades.

I would expect there will be more to come in terms of features in V12.

I felt the same about the other changes and didn't see the great need for Luma masks at first but when I tried it out it was clear that for a lot of the sort of stuff I shoot it was not just very useful but extended the potential for making better use of other tools.

To some extent one can get something like the same effect using existing features - as you might expect. However it's nothing like as easy as using the mask - in my opinion. Plus is gets me closer to some of the tools and features I had with my previous with favourite application a decade ago ... and does so much more quickly than I could achieve then.

I have not read the Canon article in depth but it 'seems' that they have made string progress into the mirrorless market in Japan and remain strong players in the market while moving up market to try to find niches with higher revenue and higher profitability, though as a company their Camera division revenue is much less then their office products revenue if I read the slides correctly.

Interestingly they also seem to be intending to move into corporate, medical and industrial markets ... with high end products. A strategy not unlike, inter alia, Phase One!

I think the bottom line - and I do understand your points in the last paragraph - is whether, in the medium term, you really gain more by walking elsewhere for the sake of a few quid on a matter of principle. I see the attraction of sticking to one's principles and I tend to do so myself. However there are times when, I have decided based on my own experience, sticking to the principles may not be entirely logical per se, no matter how riled one might be, and may turn out to be a decision taken too soon, especially if the decision is, maybe, borderline or perhaps not entirely clear. Maybe an as yet not fully developed film?

One thing I have come to realise over the years is that for many people - probably most people - something that appears to be 'free' really has no longer term value. They don't become attached to free things in most situations. Things have to be earned or paid for (much the same things in effect) to have any real value in the moment and almost certainly to have any lasting 'value' - unless they are of sentimental significance.

It can make free incentive offers turn into unwanted and possibly costly burdens in the long term without actually producing much immediate benefit for anyone.

Just my feeble opinion of course, for what little it is worth.


Grant
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Re: Capture One 12 released!

Postby NNN636486143627993816 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:02 am

Grant, don’t get me started on these other services that screw loyal customers over! ;-)

I’m not one for jumping from one deal to another, I’ve been with my bank for over 35 years, didn’t event change the branch when I moved out of the area. Sure, I’ve seen introductory deals to move my account elsewhere, I might have gained a better interest rate for a year, or got an extra £100 in my account, but the bottom line is that up until the past year, my bank has not caused me any issues, nothing’s gone wrong, and I don’t feel like they are trying to screw me. So I loyally stick with them....I say up until this last year, because I’ve had to contact them twice in 2018, first time ever, to ask them to send me a new cheque book, next time, it could be three strikes & out.

Cars - I own all my cars outright, no HP, no contracts. When I bought my first new car in my early 20’s I got screwed over on the APR rate, I learnt from that, chopped my new cars in each year for another 3 years taking advantage of a 50% down, 50% at 0% APR over the year & built up the value in the car. Since then I’ve owned my cars outright. It used to be that I could change my car each year for an acceptable sum (I get a discount as I work for a car company), but over time the discount was whittled away to the point that one year, I couldn’t get an acceptable deal and I walked away & kept the car & decided to run it for the rest of its life, of mine. If I’d only ever rented it, that option to walk away would not have been on the table.

‘Renting’ whatever it is, house, car, mobile contract’ always feels like money wasted to me. I’m sure Companies would prefer to hook all customers into renting as you don’t have the option to walk away & say “ok, I’ll make do with what I have”. Broadband with TV is about the only subscription model I currently do I think, excluding mortgage on a house.....BB with TV is another incredibly frustrating set of companies to deal with. I was with Sky, liked the service, hated their attitude to customers, eventually they drove me to the point where I said ‘stuff it’ and closed everything down with them. A few years later I took up a deal with Virginmedia, but they are behaving similarly now, so when I get time, I’m going to close my account with them too. It doesn’t matter if they then offer me something to tempt me to stay at that point, the damage has been done, and then I don’t want to give them any more custom. Vote with your feet! On a plus point, I also have a mobile BB contract with Three for an iPad. Had it for years, for me, Three have been brilliant. Occassionally they have contacted me out of the blue to advise they have upped my data allowance, but not increased prices. That’s how to keep customers loyal. I’m not sure they have ever contacted me to advise my bills going up, unlike VM, who wrote to me a few months into me starting with them to advise an increase, then several times more.....I need to stop that contract now I’m out of the contract period.

Getting back on track with C1, I know I’d find the Lum masks useful, prior to C1, when I was still using PS, I created an action that automatically generated multiple (8 or 9) masks based upon luminosity in the image, so you had the very top high lites, very bottom shadows, and a range of mid tones spanning the two extremes. It enabled one to target different aspects in an image very easily. So I know I’d love that feature. But as you said, there are other ways to achieve the same goal, and I’ve been forced to use some of them since moving to C1, and I recently watched a video showing an alternative approach in C1 that I’ve not used before, so there are options if I don’t upgrade to get lum masks. Maybe in the next few months the offers on C1 will change, and maybe I’ll feel willing to upgrade, & all will be happy with the world again, who knows.

Styles. I have a friend who I think uses ‘style’ like presets in another package a lot (don’t know which one but not C1 I think), all his images have a similar ‘look’ to them I think, a bit ‘samey’ & while it suits some images, it does suit all to my eyes. The approach seems to lack experimentation & creativity on the processing side & shows little empathy for the subject matter. His photography is otherwise good, and he wins lots of local competitions & things, but his approach doesn’t suit me....as you say, maybe he’s found a style that the majority of people like, so sticks with a winning formula.
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Re: Capture One 12 released!

Postby NNN636486143627993816 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:58 am

Grant....me again, I’ve nit looked at it before, but I’ve just seen some positive comments on Affinity Photo, so I’ve started investigating that now......& it’s less than the C1 Film Styles pack!
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Re: Capture One 12 released!

Postby SFA » Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:54 pm

NNN636486143627993816 wrote:Grant....me again, I’ve nit looked at it before, but I’ve just seen some positive comments on Affinity Photo, so I’ve started investigating that now......& it’s less than the C1 Film Styles pack!


I have it. As I had its predecessors before Serif went for the Mac market.

More or less Photoshop as far as I can tell but lower cost.

I look to it to do the stuff that I may need once or twice a year that C1 does not set out to address.

I find it as baffling as I find PS. The Tutorials make things look easy though many steps in some cases and you have to deal with the "Personas" compartmentalisation of functionality.

But for some reason when I try the processes suggested by the tutorials on my own images I rarely feel comfortable with the editing work or get the results required. It just does not seem to gel with my editing expectations and logic in much the same way that some people never get to grips with C1.

If you want something that offers a low cost non-subscription alternative to PS that does all of the Graphics editing stuff then I think it probably would suit well. But as I have never got to grips with the logic of PS editing Affinity just leaves me in the same situation.


Grant
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Re: Capture One 12 released!

Postby NNN636486143627993816 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:21 pm

Hey, thanks Grant for that assessment.

I was pretty comfy in PS when I switched to C1, so I could probably pick up Affinity fairly easily now I think.

But, it’s also dawned on me, that I bought C1 because I couldn’t open Sony RAWs on my old version of PS. But after I bought C1, I’ve subsequently stumbled on how to convert Sony RAW’s to DNG, and then open those in PS. So, I probably don’t need to go to Affinity after all, but it’s nice to know that there is potentially another solution out there I can try. Affinity is pretty cheap too, so I may get it anyway & give it a go, see how I get on with it, the advantage of it over My version of PS is that it’s still being developed for.
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Re: Capture One 12 released!

Postby SFA » Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:54 pm

NNN636486143627993816 wrote:Hey, thanks Grant for that assessment.

I was pretty comfy in PS when I switched to C1, so I could probably pick up Affinity fairly easily now I think.

But, it’s also dawned on me, that I bought C1 because I couldn’t open Sony RAWs on my old version of PS. But after I bought C1, I’ve subsequently stumbled on how to convert Sony RAW’s to DNG, and then open those in PS. So, I probably don’t need to go to Affinity after all, but it’s nice to know that there is potentially another solution out there I can try. Affinity is pretty cheap too, so I may get it anyway & give it a go, see how I get on with it, the advantage of it over My version of PS is that it’s still being developed for.


I would think that if you are comfortable with PS then Affinity should also be comfortable for you. There are many others here who seem to have adopted it as an alternative to PS.

If you are in the habit of always updating cameras to the latest and greatest you may want to investigate how quickly this happens in Affinity. I have assumed that it was pretty fast but noticed a couple of weeks ago that some of the more recently releases that C1 had just included were, as of that time, not supported for RAW in Affinity.

Considering the negative comments accruing here from C1 users about availability of RAW file support for new bodies I had wondered if everyone else was ahead of the game. Apparently not.

I don't intend that comment to be a criticism - just on observation about the practicalities of photo editing software development and release schedules.

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Re: Capture One 12 released!

Postby NNN636486143627993816 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:54 pm

Grant, I had the Canon 5d2 from 2008 until end 2017....not exactly in the habit of changing that often so it would seem ;-) I wanted & expected to upgrade sooner than that, but the 5d3, then the 6d, then the 5d4, the. the 6d2, didn’t really do it for me.

At the end of 2017, I switched to the A7R3....& that triggered the search for new software that could open its raw files natively.

Don’t know how long I’ll have the A7R3 for, but I’m not really in the habit of switching the regularly.

I recognise what you are saying though, about these companies responding to new cameras,mits a valid concern.
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Re: Capture One 12 released!

Postby SFA » Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:45 am

NNN636486143627993816 wrote:Grant, don’t get me started on these other services that screw loyal customers over! ;-)


I have been with the same bank for even longer than you. Personal and later business. Have had a few issues now and again, one rather serious but they sorted that when they realised that what another bank had asked them to do was unreasonable (after the wider story hit the press - nothing to do with me.) I moved out of the area about 4 years after the account was set up and the branch long since disappeared in amalgamations and restructuring. As have the branches that were allocated to take over the account on several occasions! It doesn't seem to matter to me or to them but then so far I have been within a few miles of a choice of branches should I need to visit. I doubt that will last much longer and the most convenient branch for me (I maybe visit once or twice a year to pay something in) has quite rapidly changed in recent times from a full service operation to little more than counters and some office space for visiting sales advisers from the bigger branches when they are sent to local appointments.

I don't think they auto send cheque books any more. They don't want to encourage such use.

My wife worked for a different bank until they closed the branch and she was able to take redundancy. She was glad to get out. The banks have changed dramatically since the return of the century and especially since 2008.

For various reasons I set up a Business account with her bank a few years ago (for a small business I was asked to take on) and an experience in the past year has persuaded me that they really do not care at all these days even when they display complete incompetence.

I agree about not jumping from one deal to the next. I have concluded the "choice" and "customer churn" are not really to the customer's benefit in the medium to long term.

My house insurance is due for renewal next week. I changed to the current provider 2 years ago when my previous multi-decade supplier offered a ridiculously more expensive renewal (as usual) but refused to re-consider as they had done in most previous years. The difference was so large and the alternative cover better, so I changed.

Last year the price offered by the new insurer was more or less the same as the previous year - not worth taking time to make the call to challenge them.

This year - up about 30%. So I checked with another company I had previously used (but for car insurance) and they offered a quote for less than I paid last year but with greater cover (though that may or may not be of any importance).

A quick call to my existing insurer (with the possibility of telling them to cancel the auto renewal mandate) pretty much instantly produced an offer almost as low as the alternative quote. Good enough for this year as I am lacking the time to do more complete research before the renewal date. However, next year may be a different story.

One might see a parallel with C1 pricing I suppose BUT it all depends on whether you use the product - and I use C1 regularly but make insurance claims extremely rarely.

Cars. I always bought my own (used) cars and then moved to jobs with Company cars for several years. Moving on and becoming self employed I ended up buying my last company car for almost nothing, running it for a couple of years and then moving on to relatively young but high mileage executive vehicles for the value they offered.

The first one worked out pretty well, the second not so well in terms of running costs (partly down to poor maintenance at the dealer's service dept.). The third I bought with a view to running it for about 2 years but I still have it over 14 years later. I no longer do high miles, the cost of maintenance over the years has been a little higher than I would have hoped but really not so different to that of any cars marketed in the past 15 years. So far I can still get the parts it needs from time to time and they don't cost the silly money that some slightly younger vehicle's parts cost. So my car continues and the younger cars are scrapped about half way or less through their design life because an engine management module replacement involves so many control issues in other systems and is quoted at such a ridiculous price that the car is considered to be beyond economic repair. Or some new government legislation is introduced that totally screws the market making even newer equipment obsolete well before the point at which the utility it offers has covered the cost of design, development, manufacture and distribution. What a waste of energy.

All of which is part of the reason why people have accepted personal leasing and lease hire as it spread over the pond. It can be especially attractive if you can take advantage of some of the deals that seem to be around a lot of the time these days.

We are being encouraged to look towards electric cars and frankly I think buying one, even a used one where someone else has taken the hit on huge depreciation, is madness. Likewise buying a diesel (due to legislation) and it will not be long before the entire petrol powered market is equally badly affected. But as you work for a car company you probably know about that already.

Renting being wasted money was indeed a very logical conclusion at one time for most people. There were some who might find their careers moved them often and for whom potentially being unable to sell a property and move when needed was a greater potential waste than renting. And of course buying an some sort of dodgy premise - especially property - at the peak of a market caught out many.

However, at certain times of any market rented use rather than owned use can make sense.

This, I suspect, will be especially true for autonomous electric cars in many locations.

Maybe also camera equipment for those who, perhaps, invest several thousand pounds to take a few hundred images a year. Or for high end kit for special shoots as and when they may arise.

Younger generations seem to be quite accustomed to such concepts having been mobile phone users since their formative years. To many of them the advantages of a subscription model seem to be obvious and normal, whether for phone, broadband, general life expenses (via card offers), "must have" TV services , finance deals for everything they want NOW and are not prepared to wait and save for (no surprise since "things you may want" life cycles are short and gaining form saving now all but impossible) or whatever.

My only experience of cable TV is via friends and some family, I don't habitually watch TV. My wife does but seems quite happy with Free to Air offerings and a multi-tuner digital recorder.

As our road was cabled decades ago I get monthly offer letters form the cable owner and once we had a spate of crews turning up on the road to install connections to the houses that had not ordered them. It seemed that someone had placed orders in other names for the affected addresses but for reasons we never did manage to work out.

I think the Luma masking is so much easier than alternative work rounds within C1 ,that if one is likely to use it a lot, it's worth having - though with a lot of layers things might get a little stretched. It will be interesting to see what else appears.

I would be very surprised if there was not at least one additional significant functional enhancement in the life of V12. Of course it is possible for any enhancement that it may be especially useful to some people and not to others. That's normal for almost all software offering any breadth of functionality.

An interesting "conversation". Thanks.


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Re: Capture One 12 released!

Postby NNN636486143627993816 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:29 pm

Grant, I find it remarkable how similar we are in many respects, and yet, have maybe reached different conclusions....I think that may be due to the amount you are using C1 vs me on say a weekly or monthly basis, and maybe because I now have a solution for Sony Raw files in PS, which I didn’t know about when I bought C1....if I had, I may not have bought C1 to start with. So I have options.

It’s not that I don’t like the C1 product, I do, & should P1 update their upgrade offers to be more attractive, I would probably still contemplate doing the upgrade, but not as it stands when I last looked.

On the subject of cars & renting, I read an article which suggested that in as little as ten years, the whole car ownership thing might change dramatically. It proposed that with the advent of car hailing technology like Uber use, it just makes it so much more convenient to ‘hire’ a car only when you need it. A large part of the cost for an Uber lift is the cost of the drivers wages, the price of fuel, insurance and maintenance, but, the article described how these costs are going to potentially change. Electric cars will have cheaper fuel costs per mile vs fossils fuel burning alternatives. Electric cars have fewer moving parts so maintenance costs will be lower. Finally autonomous cars will not require a driver, and eventually, autonomous cars will statistically be seen to have far fewer accidents than human driven cars, so the insurance costs will drop forcautomomous cars. With these developments, which are already with us and starting to take effect, it will significantly lower the cost of hiring an ‘Uber’ car to take you from A to B. It’s then a snowball effect, the cheaper it becomes to take an electric autonomous Uber taxi, the more uneconomic it will become for individuals to own and run their own cars. In the article it also said this sort of paradigm shift has already taken place in the past. It compared a photo taken in New York in 1918 vs a decade later. In the 1918 shot, there were no cars, just lots & lots of horse dawn carts. 10 years later, there were no horses to be seen, just lots of cars. The articles vision could easily happen in the next decade.

I agree, it has been an interesting exchange.
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Re: Capture One 12 released!

Postby DeeL77 » Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:42 pm

Capture One Pro 12 (upgrade) is too expensive.

C1 version 3-7 to 8 upgrade: 66,75 euro (298,4 PLN - my native currency)
C1 version 8 to 9 upgrade: 109,47 euro (475,1 PLN)
C1 version 9 to 11 upgrade (version 10 skipped): 119 USD (456,9 PLN)
and now i have two options
C1 version 11 to 12 upgrade via PhaseOne site: 195,57 euro (848,8 !!! PLN)
or
Adobe LR + Photoshop: 146,71 euro (including taxes, 636,7 PLN)


For me as a amateur photorapher - the price is too high and version 11 of CaptureOne is last.
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Re: Capture One 12 released!

Postby Irvin.Gomez » Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:39 pm

DeeL77 wrote:Capture One Pro 12 (upgrade) is too expensive.

C1 version 3-7 to 8 upgrade: 66,75 euro (298,4 PLN - my native currency)
C1 version 8 to 9 upgrade: 109,47 euro (475,1 PLN)
C1 version 9 to 11 upgrade (version 10 skipped): 119 USD (456,9 PLN)
and now i have two options
C1 version 11 to 12 upgrade via PhaseOne site: 195,57 euro (848,8 !!! PLN)
or
Adobe LR + Photoshop: 146,71 euro (including taxes, 636,7 PLN)


For me as a amateur photorapher - the price is too high and version 11 of CaptureOne is last.


V11 was the last one for me, too. Way too expensive to upgrade considering that all new features have been present and work much better and much faster in Photoshop for many years.

Capture One needs a blur brush, HDR stacking, frequency separation for meaningful skin retouching, etc. At this point, quite honestly, there is absolutely no reason to pay the insane upgrade prices.
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Re: Capture One 12 released!

Postby SFA » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:42 pm

Irvin.Gomez wrote:
DeeL77 wrote:Capture One Pro 12 (upgrade) is too expensive.

C1 version 3-7 to 8 upgrade: 66,75 euro (298,4 PLN - my native currency)
C1 version 8 to 9 upgrade: 109,47 euro (475,1 PLN)
C1 version 9 to 11 upgrade (version 10 skipped): 119 USD (456,9 PLN)
and now i have two options
C1 version 11 to 12 upgrade via PhaseOne site: 195,57 euro (848,8 !!! PLN)
or
Adobe LR + Photoshop: 146,71 euro (including taxes, 636,7 PLN)


For me as a amateur photorapher - the price is too high and version 11 of CaptureOne is last.


V11 was the last one for me, too. Way too expensive to upgrade considering that all new features have been present and work much better and much faster in Photoshop for many years.

Capture One needs a blur brush, HDR stacking, frequency separation for meaningful skin retouching, etc. At this point, quite honestly, there is absolutely no reason to pay the insane upgrade prices.


So you want a Photoshop replacement rather than a RAW converter?

Why?

What do you think is wrong with Photoshop?
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Re: Capture One 12 released!

Postby Irvin.Gomez » Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:51 pm

SFA wrote:
Irvin.Gomez wrote:V11 was the last one for me, too. Way too expensive to upgrade considering that all new features have been present and work much better and much faster in Photoshop for many years.

Capture One needs a blur brush, HDR stacking, frequency separation for meaningful skin retouching, etc. At this point, quite honestly, there is absolutely no reason to pay the insane upgrade prices.


So you want a Photoshop replacement rather than a RAW converter?

Why?

What do you think is wrong with Photoshop?


Good question that merits a clear answer, so please bear with me.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Photoshop. I do not want a Photoshop replacement instead of a raw converter. In fact, your question should be directed at Phase One: they are the ones trying to turn Capture One into Photoshop - at a glacial and very costly pace!!!

Now, Capture One justifies the upgrade price with new and improved features. Nothing wrong with that - everyone else does it, too, including Adobe. As a consumer, it is my right to consider my options and to be smart about getting the most value for my money - so the question becomes:


is Capture One that 'best value'?

My answer is a clear 'No", because Capture One, as nice as it is (I love the color editor and have no serious complains about the software in general - it's an excellent product), still requires that the average user invest on other software to fill the gaps in Capture One, specially in the field of post-processing and pixel editing. For example: there is no DHR stacking, no blur brush, no Frequency Separation, etc. Those are common post-processing tasks nowadays, not some exotic features that only one-in-a million users employ. So, things like Photoshop or Affinity Photo, for example, become necessary.

As a paying user of Capture One and Lightroom/Photoshop (they are a single product for practical purposes), I see luminosity making in Capture One and have to feel the $160 upgrade price is way too high for features Photoshop has had for many, many years. Capture One's yearly upgrade schedule makes using the software and having access to the latest and best features into a subscription like Adobe's, only much more expensive and without many of the very powerful features present in Photoshop.

There is absolutely nothing that can be done in Capture One today that can't be accomplished with the Adobe subscription. On the other hand, there is a whole lot of things possible with Photoshop that can't be done at all with Capture One.

When you look at it from my perspective (the perspective of many others, Adobe being a virtual monopoly in the imaging industry) , it's easy to see why the Capture One upgrade cost seems grossly inflated, give the options available to me as a consumer, given the market prices in general.

That's the point I was trying to make.
Irvin.Gomez
 
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Re: Capture One 12 released!

Postby Class A » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:38 pm

SFA wrote:What do you think is wrong with Photoshop?

  1. Introducing Photoshop into one's workflow (typically) introduces destructive edits.
  2. More space is required for an intermediate file.
  3. One has two image versions in the catalog, one before and one after PS edits.
  4. One needs to switch between two applications instead of doing everything with one application. This includes knowing which changes have been accomplished with which application.
  5. Photoshop is not free.
Quite a bit "wrong" with having to involve PS, wouldn't you agree?
Class A
 
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Re: Capture One 12 released!

Postby Irvin.Gomez » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:49 pm

Class A wrote:
SFA wrote:What do you think is wrong with Photoshop?

  1. Introducing Photoshop into one's workflow (typically) introduces destructive edits.
  2. More space is required for an intermediate file.
  3. One has two image versions in the catalog, one before and one after PS edits.
  4. One needs to switch between two applications instead of doing everything with one application. This includes knowing which changes have been accomplished with which application.
  5. Photoshop is not free.
Quite a bit "wrong" with having to involve PS, wouldn't you agree?


Photoshop’s non-destructive editing is real and the best available at any price. It’s the industry standard, used by the overwhelming (80%+) majority of imaging professionals, including photographers.

Hard drive space or cost is no longer a problem for anyone. Not to mention that most pictures do not require Photoshop ‘treatment’, but when it’s necessary, Photoshop is a must.

Multiple versions of images in a catalog is standard practice. Nothing wrong with it.

You can’t do everything with a single application, regardless of name. How do you accomplish HDR stacking or Frequency Separation in Capture One? How do you do in Capture One what the blur brush does in Photoshop? Both Photoshop and Lightroom have a history panel.

Photoshop is not free (and neither is Capture One), but the entire Adobe subscription, including Photoshop, Lightroom and mobile applications is significantly cheaper than the vastly more limted Capture One.

That said, the thread is not about Capture One vs Adobe’s subscription. it’s about the grossly inflated price of Capture One upgrades in light of current industry prices, including those of more complete solutions.
Irvin.Gomez
 
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